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Putting aside the technical impossibility of banning mining, I'd ask a moral question. If it's widely believed that monopolies are bad, why is this proposal to

Putting aside the technical impossibility of banning mining, I'd ask a moral question. If it's widely believed that monopolies are bad, why is this proposal to support the government money monopoly good? Governments that are inflating their own currencies to hell and impoverishing their own citizens are trying to FUD and diminish a potential competitor that cannot possibly be hyperinflated. The suffering and human misery that is going to come from government destroying the currency with no alternatives available is far worse than even the worst climate change doomsday predictions.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> the technical impossibility of banning mining These charges of open lawlessness in tax evasion and money laundering, largely by millionaires, is why we see popular support for such measures. Also, a ban on proof of work is far from a ban on cryptocurrency, web3 or DeFi.
- logicalmonster 4y ago
  "Banning mining" has literally nothing to do with whether or not legal taxes are paid.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > has literally nothing to do with whether or not legal taxes are paid Someone claiming “technical impossibility” in banning mining implies the government can’t catch them mining illegally. Most criminals don’t pay tax on their gains.
    - logicalmonster 4y ago
      > Someone claiming “technical impossibility” in banning mining implies the government can’t catch them mining illegally. I think my statement is pretty correct. Short of something like cutting off power or global communication, you can't really technically prevent Bitcoin mining by decree. Of course, anything that exists in physical space can be jailed/shot/seized/destroyed, so your statement is also correct. Goody. > Most criminals don’t pay tax on their gains. It goes without saying, but somebody who doesn't pay tax on their gains is considered a criminal by our system. PS: I don't want to get into a mind-reading session with you, but your beef seems to be with rich people who you consider to not pay enough taxes. That is a wholly separate issue from whether or not Bitcoin mining is "allowed" or not.
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > cutting off power or global communication, you can't really technically prevent Bitcoin mining by decree Same way we can’t prevent terrorist financing or bribery. But we can fight it. (Drawing a functional, not moral analogy.) Consider how the public might receive a terrorism financier or bribe broker arguing that these can’t be perfectly enforced and so should be made legal. That’s Bitcoin’s image problem. > anything that exists in physical space can be jailed/shot/seized/destroyed This is my point.
        logicalmonster 4y ago
        1) Your argument takes a dishonest form because your solution has nothing to do with the problems you're citing. If you were arguing for better tax evasion detection for crypto users who didn't pay their legally obliged taxes or doing better to find and stop terrorist financiers who operated via crypto, that would be one thing that would be worth having a reasonable discussion about. But a proposal to "ban bitcoin mining" is something wholly different from those points. 2) You're under no obligation to do so, but I hope you consider my moral question up above. The human misery and suffering that comes from a crashed currency is a repeatable and verifiable phenomenon through history and far worse than anything that could conceivably come from climate change or tax evasion. Why is it so scary to have some potential alternatives available?
        JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > tax evasion detection My point was never tax evasion. It’s that saying Bitcoin can’t be banned implies acceptance of breaking the law via money laundering and tax evasion. What I said would be true if every crypto holder today paid taxes or none. > Why is it so scary to have some potential alternatives available? The alternative is causing clear and present harm. This only contemplates a PoW ban. That seems reasonably constrained. (Crypto protects against currency crashes as well as the British pound. When Argentina hyper inflates, its population is no less unemployed for having the dollar.)
        4y ago
lern_too_spel 4y ago
It's technically impossible to ban littering too, but when people are caught doing it, they can be penalized to deter others from doing it. Catching people mining is as simple as imposing KYC on UTXOs moved to exchanges and looking for miners with US IPs. (They can use a VPN to mine, but with China already banning mining and more countries to follow, VPN choices will diminish.)

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> the technical impossibility of banning mining These charges of open lawlessness in tax evasion and money laundering, largely by millionaires, is why we see popular support for such measures. Also, a ban on proof of work is far from a ban on cryptocurrency, web3 or DeFi.

logicalmonster 4y ago
"Banning mining" has literally nothing to do with whether or not legal taxes are paid.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > has literally nothing to do with whether or not legal taxes are paid Someone claiming “technical impossibility” in banning mining implies the government can’t catch them mining illegally. Most criminals don’t pay tax on their gains.
  - logicalmonster 4y ago
    > Someone claiming “technical impossibility” in banning mining implies the government can’t catch them mining illegally. I think my statement is pretty correct. Short of something like cutting off power or global communication, you can't really technically prevent Bitcoin mining by decree. Of course, anything that exists in physical space can be jailed/shot/seized/destroyed, so your statement is also correct. Goody. > Most criminals don’t pay tax on their gains. It goes without saying, but somebody who doesn't pay tax on their gains is considered a criminal by our system. PS: I don't want to get into a mind-reading session with you, but your beef seems to be with rich people who you consider to not pay enough taxes. That is a wholly separate issue from whether or not Bitcoin mining is "allowed" or not.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > cutting off power or global communication, you can't really technically prevent Bitcoin mining by decree Same way we can’t prevent terrorist financing or bribery. But we can fight it. (Drawing a functional, not moral analogy.) Consider how the public might receive a terrorism financier or bribe broker arguing that these can’t be perfectly enforced and so should be made legal. That’s Bitcoin’s image problem. > anything that exists in physical space can be jailed/shot/seized/destroyed This is my point.
      - logicalmonster 4y ago
        1) Your argument takes a dishonest form because your solution has nothing to do with the problems you're citing. If you were arguing for better tax evasion detection for crypto users who didn't pay their legally obliged taxes or doing better to find and stop terrorist financiers who operated via crypto, that would be one thing that would be worth having a reasonable discussion about. But a proposal to "ban bitcoin mining" is something wholly different from those points. 2) You're under no obligation to do so, but I hope you consider my moral question up above. The human misery and suffering that comes from a crashed currency is a repeatable and verifiable phenomenon through history and far worse than anything that could conceivably come from climate change or tax evasion. Why is it so scary to have some potential alternatives available?
        JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > tax evasion detection My point was never tax evasion. It’s that saying Bitcoin can’t be banned implies acceptance of breaking the law via money laundering and tax evasion. What I said would be true if every crypto holder today paid taxes or none. > Why is it so scary to have some potential alternatives available? The alternative is causing clear and present harm. This only contemplates a PoW ban. That seems reasonably constrained. (Crypto protects against currency crashes as well as the British pound. When Argentina hyper inflates, its population is no less unemployed for having the dollar.)
        4y ago

lern_too_spel 4y ago

It's technically impossible to ban littering too, but when people are caught doing it, they can be penalized to deter others from doing it. Catching people mining is as simple as imposing KYC on UTXOs moved to exchanges and looking for miners with US IPs. (They can use a VPN to mine, but with China already banning mining and more countries to follow, VPN choices will diminish.)