4 ms·

Ironically books like those of Orwell aren't particularly helpful, because they anthropomorphize too much. The idea of a downward trend of civil rights is also

by Bakary 4y ago

Ironically books like those of Orwell aren't particularly helpful, because they anthropomorphize too much. The idea of a downward trend of civil rights is also misleading, because it implies a separation of these rights from all the other material or cultural forces that are brushing up against each other at the same time. Tales like Animal Farm create the impression that all we have to do is to get 'the team' back together again and just align the liberal democracies around the old methods in a struggle of good vs. bad. We only have what we identify as civil rights from very specific material and historical conditions. It's not a coincidence that liberalism appeared around the same time that we first created a significant surplus during the industrial revolution.

denton-scratch 4y ago
> because they anthropomorphize too much You seem to be basing your view on a single book. Is there anthropomorphism in 1984? Homage to Catalonia? Consider also reading some of his essays, as well as his books. Orwell isn't all about pigs and horses. Animal Farm was a children's book.
- Bakary 4y ago
  I'm not referring to the actual animals. To clarify what I meant: both Orwell and the ideas we have about civil rights tend to focus too much on the individual human's perspective of seeing rights evolve or the moral and emotional rejection of totalitarianism at an individual scale. It is the systems that are being anthropomorphized. You kind of see this habit unfold in his essays where he talks about pacifists or his disappointment with socialists. This is what makes his work so compelling to read, however, so I don't blame him at all. Perhaps 1984 itself is amusingly the best example to explain this argument. The main character's travails and the lessons therein are too anthropomorphic, but the initial insight Orwell had that would lead to the book's premise is much more interesting: the idea that nuclear weapons would either favor large authoritarian states or small groups depending on their ease of production.[0] Maybe anthropomorphically is the wrong word to use here, and I should simply have said thinking of systems vs. thinking of stories. You can see the difference by reading Orwell's theoretical vs. more human scale essays and books, but it's his human scale that is almost exclusively remembered by most people in his case. Although I love that book, Homage to Catalonia is no less a children's story than Animal Farm. [0] https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/you-and-the-atom-bomb/ https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...

by Bakary 4y ago

denton-scratch 4y ago

> because they anthropomorphize too much You seem to be basing your view on a single book. Is there anthropomorphism in 1984? Homage to Catalonia? Consider also reading some of his essays, as well as his books. Orwell isn't all about pigs and horses. Animal Farm was a children's book.

Bakary 4y ago
I'm not referring to the actual animals. To clarify what I meant: both Orwell and the ideas we have about civil rights tend to focus too much on the individual human's perspective of seeing rights evolve or the moral and emotional rejection of totalitarianism at an individual scale. It is the systems that are being anthropomorphized. You kind of see this habit unfold in his essays where he talks about pacifists or his disappointment with socialists. This is what makes his work so compelling to read, however, so I don't blame him at all. Perhaps 1984 itself is amusingly the best example to explain this argument. The main character's travails and the lessons therein are too anthropomorphic, but the initial insight Orwell had that would lead to the book's premise is much more interesting: the idea that nuclear weapons would either favor large authoritarian states or small groups depending on their ease of production.[0] Maybe anthropomorphically is the wrong word to use here, and I should simply have said thinking of systems vs. thinking of stories. You can see the difference by reading Orwell's theoretical vs. more human scale essays and books, but it's his human scale that is almost exclusively remembered by most people in his case. Although I love that book, Homage to Catalonia is no less a children's story than Animal Farm. [0] https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/you-and-the-atom-bomb/ https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...