4 ms·

> Banning PoW would benefit Bitcoin Since Bitcoin relies on PoW, banning PoW effectively bans mining Bitcoin. On the surface, why that would make Bitcoin more

by sshine 4y ago

> Banning PoW would benefit Bitcoin Since Bitcoin relies on PoW, banning PoW effectively bans mining Bitcoin. On the surface, why that would make Bitcoin more popular is nonsensical, but I see two interpretations, and I’m guessing you mean the second one: 1) Banning PoW mining in the US, like they did in China, severely limits industrial-scale Bitcoin mining in another big part of the world, lowering the total mining incentive, and moving mining out to places where people don’t object to it and where electricity is cheap and in excess: this somewhat lowers the total hash rate, conflicts less with our growing energy demand in populated areas, but more significantly makes the environmental cost more abstract to people and thus easier to swallow. It’s a lot more upsetting to see a power plant down the river mining Bitcoin than knowing they come from somewhere called “the cloud”. 2) Banning PoW mining in the US could somehow incentivise towards a PoS transition, like with Ethereum. I don’t see that happening for Bitcoin. Sorry.

ricardobayes 4y ago
IMO Moving from Bitcoin to e.g. Ethereum is akin to banning ICE engines and moving to EVs
- eric_cc 4y ago
  > IMO Moving from Bitcoin to e.g. Ethereum is akin to banning ICE engines and moving to EVs You have a lot to learn then because your analogy is weak. PoW vs PoS debate is one of decentralization, power, democratization and control. As for bitcoin being dated: it’s ossification is intentional. It is, by design, a predictable and reliable monetary system.
  - couchand 4y ago
    > a predictable and reliable monetary system. Now that's funny!
    - eric_cc 4y ago
      What is unpredictable or unreliable about the monetary policy of bitcoin? In 2028, how many new US dollars will enter circulation? How many bitcoin?
      - MeltingAaah 4y ago
        It doesn't matter as Bitcoin will just create more 'value' through existing bitcoins getting more valuable and therefore the domination will change. It already happened. 10 years ago a pizza was worth how much? And how many bitcoins do you need now for one pizza?
        eric_cc 4y ago
        Cost of pizza is an example of buying power of bitcoin which is not the same as its monetary policy. I can not argue that the buying power has been volatile thus far. I do suspect it will trend toward stability on a decades timeline.
  - MeltingAaah 4y ago
    It's just not. Some dude though about some basic concept of decentralization and that's it. This was not some mastermind who created the perfect money system. There are massive amounts of issues with Bitcoin in particular. Alone one reason why Ethereum was trying to be ASIC resistent was to make GPUs stronger and allowing for more / better decentralization. Plenty of people who are no longer able to recover their wallets (I know two friends having lost 150k$\initial investment of 10k$). Fraud issues like you see in El Salvador. The huge changes in value (no Bitcoin is apparently not stable and independent from the economic market). And it doesn't even solve the trust issue. As soon as you wanna spend Bitcoin you need other systems like smart contract (which also doesn't solve the problem) or trusting third party. The only advantage of Bitcoin is that's unregulated and everyone is taking a bit of it who is fast enough, rich enough or smart enough from everyone else who is not.
Alex3917 4y ago
> I see two interpretations, and I’m guessing you mean the second one In order for Bitcoin to remain secure, the $$$ amount spent on electricity to mine Bitcoin has to be commensurate with the value of Bitcoin purchased on the markets. Because there is only so much electricity in the world that can be allocated to mining, this places an upper bound on the price that Bitcoin can reach in the markets.
anonporridge 4y ago
> Banning PoW mining in the US could somehow incentivise towards a PoS transition, like with Ethereum. I don’t see that happening for Bitcoin. Sorry. It won't happen for bitcoin. PoW is such a fundamentally intrinsic part of what bitcoin is, that a transition to PoS will never happen, nor would it be desirable for most bitcoin holders who actively believe PoW to be the intrinsically interesting invention, and PoS to simply be a slight iteration of the old system. PoW was never a fundamental part of what ethereum was, because ethereum is fundamentally just whatever Vitalik and team and their early investors want it to be. Ethereum, or any other PoS token, isn't a real alternative to bitcoin. It's something else that covers different use cases, and I'm still not sure what those use cases are.

by sshine 4y ago

ricardobayes 4y ago

IMO Moving from Bitcoin to e.g. Ethereum is akin to banning ICE engines and moving to EVs

eric_cc 4y ago
> IMO Moving from Bitcoin to e.g. Ethereum is akin to banning ICE engines and moving to EVs You have a lot to learn then because your analogy is weak. PoW vs PoS debate is one of decentralization, power, democratization and control. As for bitcoin being dated: it’s ossification is intentional. It is, by design, a predictable and reliable monetary system.
- couchand 4y ago
  > a predictable and reliable monetary system. Now that's funny!
  - eric_cc 4y ago
    What is unpredictable or unreliable about the monetary policy of bitcoin? In 2028, how many new US dollars will enter circulation? How many bitcoin?
    - MeltingAaah 4y ago
      It doesn't matter as Bitcoin will just create more 'value' through existing bitcoins getting more valuable and therefore the domination will change. It already happened. 10 years ago a pizza was worth how much? And how many bitcoins do you need now for one pizza?
      - eric_cc 4y ago
        Cost of pizza is an example of buying power of bitcoin which is not the same as its monetary policy. I can not argue that the buying power has been volatile thus far. I do suspect it will trend toward stability on a decades timeline.
- MeltingAaah 4y ago
  It's just not. Some dude though about some basic concept of decentralization and that's it. This was not some mastermind who created the perfect money system. There are massive amounts of issues with Bitcoin in particular. Alone one reason why Ethereum was trying to be ASIC resistent was to make GPUs stronger and allowing for more / better decentralization. Plenty of people who are no longer able to recover their wallets (I know two friends having lost 150k$\initial investment of 10k$). Fraud issues like you see in El Salvador. The huge changes in value (no Bitcoin is apparently not stable and independent from the economic market). And it doesn't even solve the trust issue. As soon as you wanna spend Bitcoin you need other systems like smart contract (which also doesn't solve the problem) or trusting third party. The only advantage of Bitcoin is that's unregulated and everyone is taking a bit of it who is fast enough, rich enough or smart enough from everyone else who is not.

Alex3917 4y ago

> I see two interpretations, and I’m guessing you mean the second one In order for Bitcoin to remain secure, the $$$ amount spent on electricity to mine Bitcoin has to be commensurate with the value of Bitcoin purchased on the markets. Because there is only so much electricity in the world that can be allocated to mining, this places an upper bound on the price that Bitcoin can reach in the markets.

anonporridge 4y ago

> Banning PoW mining in the US could somehow incentivise towards a PoS transition, like with Ethereum. I don’t see that happening for Bitcoin. Sorry. It won't happen for bitcoin. PoW is such a fundamentally intrinsic part of what bitcoin is, that a transition to PoS will never happen, nor would it be desirable for most bitcoin holders who actively believe PoW to be the intrinsically interesting invention, and PoS to simply be a slight iteration of the old system. PoW was never a fundamental part of what ethereum was, because ethereum is fundamentally just whatever Vitalik and team and their early investors want it to be. Ethereum, or any other PoS token, isn't a real alternative to bitcoin. It's something else that covers different use cases, and I'm still not sure what those use cases are.