3 ms·

> In a democracy, majority consensus rules. I am a fan of democracy but when it comes to a local issue like this, the reality is “consensus of the people who h

by paulgb 4y ago

> In a democracy, majority consensus rules. I am a fan of democracy but when it comes to a local issue like this, the reality is “consensus of the people who have the most free time rules”. It’s not like there was a vote on whether to ban these books, and my hunch is such a vote would not have passed. > Refusing to have books procured and presented using public funds is not book banning. They literally removed books from shelves and locked them in cabinets, this isn’t just about procurement.

Dalewyn 4y ago
>I am a fan of democracy but when it comes to a local issue like this, the reality is “consensus of the people who have the most free time rules”. It’s not like there was a vote on whether to ban these books, and my hunch is such a vote would not have passed. You aren't a "fan of democracy" if you immediately toss it out because you don't like its results. Also, there has been at least one prior example of a public library losing its public funding[1] after angering voters with their defiant behaviour. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32364615 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32364615 >They literally removed books from shelves and locked them in cabinets, this isn’t just about procurement. And? You can still buy those books from your favorite bookstore or other retailer if you really want them that badly.
- paulgb 4y ago
  > And? And it contradicts your implication that this is about procurement/use of public funds. > Refusing to have books procured and presented using public funds is not book banning.
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    >And it contradicts your implication that this is about procurement/use of public funds. I admit that I have an incomplete understanding of the situation, because as I mentioned earlier the NYT article is obnoxious to read. But what I presume is: A public library removed books from its collection after complaints from the public. That isn't book banning, not the least because the people demanding this are the people themselves. Anyone who really still wants those books can procure them with their own money. Nobody's stopping that. The only thing the public is stopping is using public funds to procure and present those books.
    - kthejoker2 4y ago
      Thanks for admitting you have an incomplete understanding. This is not "the people", this is a very small handful of people. In fact, it is a group of people attempting to use policies designed to stop actual pornography from getting into the library to ban LGBTQ and race-centric memoirs, well regarded critical works like Beloved, Lolita, and Maus, and completely age-appropriate books. This is an decidely undemocratic action, and as stated above, it's disproportionately voiced by "people with free time" (including free time to send death threats and show up at school board meetings carrying assault rifles) Deciding whether Anne Frank's diary belongs in a school library should not be a function of who can yell the loudest. Thay is what small children do. If there was an actual vote by "the people" on these works, they would be allowed in a heartbeat. But the reason we don't have votes on books is because minority views have rights, too, and what's in the library is not a popularity contest.

by paulgb 4y ago

Dalewyn 4y ago

>I am a fan of democracy but when it comes to a local issue like this, the reality is “consensus of the people who have the most free time rules”. It’s not like there was a vote on whether to ban these books, and my hunch is such a vote would not have passed. You aren't a "fan of democracy" if you immediately toss it out because you don't like its results. Also, there has been at least one prior example of a public library losing its public funding[1] after angering voters with their defiant behaviour. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32364615 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32364615 >They literally removed books from shelves and locked them in cabinets, this isn’t just about procurement. And? You can still buy those books from your favorite bookstore or other retailer if you really want them that badly.

paulgb 4y ago
> And? And it contradicts your implication that this is about procurement/use of public funds. > Refusing to have books procured and presented using public funds is not book banning.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  >And it contradicts your implication that this is about procurement/use of public funds. I admit that I have an incomplete understanding of the situation, because as I mentioned earlier the NYT article is obnoxious to read. But what I presume is: A public library removed books from its collection after complaints from the public. That isn't book banning, not the least because the people demanding this are the people themselves. Anyone who really still wants those books can procure them with their own money. Nobody's stopping that. The only thing the public is stopping is using public funds to procure and present those books.
  - kthejoker2 4y ago
    Thanks for admitting you have an incomplete understanding. This is not "the people", this is a very small handful of people. In fact, it is a group of people attempting to use policies designed to stop actual pornography from getting into the library to ban LGBTQ and race-centric memoirs, well regarded critical works like Beloved, Lolita, and Maus, and completely age-appropriate books. This is an decidely undemocratic action, and as stated above, it's disproportionately voiced by "people with free time" (including free time to send death threats and show up at school board meetings carrying assault rifles) Deciding whether Anne Frank's diary belongs in a school library should not be a function of who can yell the loudest. Thay is what small children do. If there was an actual vote by "the people" on these works, they would be allowed in a heartbeat. But the reason we don't have votes on books is because minority views have rights, too, and what's in the library is not a popularity contest.