4 ms·

What crimes did they commit?

by johndevor 4y ago

YeBanKo 4y ago
Libel?
- tptacek 4y ago
  Libel isn't a crime. Nobody is going to go after the students, because a defamation case has to establish damages, and no one student will have done any significant damage to the Gibson family. It was straightforward to demonstrate that Oberlin had.
  - throwoutway 4y ago
    So society & justice should just ignore the masses protests of students because it’s too hard to prosecute? I think we can agree that yes it will be hard, but justice has not been fully served
    - tptacek 4y ago
      First, you can't "prosecute" someone for defamation, because it isn't a crime. Second, "society and justice" can't do anything. To sue someone for defamation, you have to have standing: you have to be able to demonstrate harm to yourself. Third, it won't be "hard"; it will be impossible. Most of what the students said isn't defamatory (contrary to widely held opinion on these threads, calling the Gibson family "racist" is not defamatory, as it is a statement of opinion), and what defamatory things were said probably didn't cause any actual damage on a student-by-student basis. Later I updated this comment to change "very probably not defamatory" to simply "not defamatory" after doing some reading and learning that, lol-no, you cannot sue someone for calling you racist; courts do in fact hold that to be a statement of opinion.
  - YeBanKo 4y ago
    There is such a thing like criminal libel. The bar is high and hard to prove. Civil procedure is technically a form of prosecution. The main goal of the students was a financial damage to the bakery. In fact, students action led actions by the college.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      Find a criminal defamation statute in Ohio. I don't believe you can, but I stand ready to be surprised. Civil procedure is not technically a form of prosecution. And students can have a goal of damaging the bakery, but to be liable for defamation, they have to: (1) individually succeed in causing countable damage to Gibson's, and (2) do so by circulating false statements of fact --- for instance, you cannot sue someone for defamation simply for pointing out something somebody else said: "I read in this flyer that Gibson's assaulted a student" is not defamation, even if the flyer is. People have a lot of weird ideas about what happened here. The court filings are on the Internet; you can just go read them.

What crimes did they commit?

YeBanKo 4y ago

Libel?

tptacek 4y ago
Libel isn't a crime. Nobody is going to go after the students, because a defamation case has to establish damages, and no one student will have done any significant damage to the Gibson family. It was straightforward to demonstrate that Oberlin had.
- throwoutway 4y ago
  So society & justice should just ignore the masses protests of students because it’s too hard to prosecute? I think we can agree that yes it will be hard, but justice has not been fully served
  - tptacek 4y ago
    First, you can't "prosecute" someone for defamation, because it isn't a crime. Second, "society and justice" can't do anything. To sue someone for defamation, you have to have standing: you have to be able to demonstrate harm to yourself. Third, it won't be "hard"; it will be impossible. Most of what the students said isn't defamatory (contrary to widely held opinion on these threads, calling the Gibson family "racist" is not defamatory, as it is a statement of opinion), and what defamatory things were said probably didn't cause any actual damage on a student-by-student basis. Later I updated this comment to change "very probably not defamatory" to simply "not defamatory" after doing some reading and learning that, lol-no, you cannot sue someone for calling you racist; courts do in fact hold that to be a statement of opinion.
- YeBanKo 4y ago
  There is such a thing like criminal libel. The bar is high and hard to prove. Civil procedure is technically a form of prosecution. The main goal of the students was a financial damage to the bakery. In fact, students action led actions by the college.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    Find a criminal defamation statute in Ohio. I don't believe you can, but I stand ready to be surprised. Civil procedure is not technically a form of prosecution. And students can have a goal of damaging the bakery, but to be liable for defamation, they have to: (1) individually succeed in causing countable damage to Gibson's, and (2) do so by circulating false statements of fact --- for instance, you cannot sue someone for defamation simply for pointing out something somebody else said: "I read in this flyer that Gibson's assaulted a student" is not defamation, even if the flyer is. People have a lot of weird ideas about what happened here. The court filings are on the Internet; you can just go read them.