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Youtube Shorts are terribly good at what they do, and I presume is the same for something like TikTok. In fact they are so good at grabbing attention that I fee

Youtube Shorts are terribly good at what they do, and I presume is the same for something like TikTok. In fact they are so good at grabbing attention that I feel like a resposible company would quickly have discontinued Shorts, to avoid doing to much damage. The quality of the content in most Shorts is extremely low, yet it’s very addictive. There’s basically no psycologic break for users. You have to be a pretty cold person to think that stealing hours of people life every day as a business opportunity.

pleb_nz 4y ago
YouTube shorts is the biggest thing I wish I could disable on my modern internet experience. So I personally think it's a failure for me as a market
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  yep... also, why the hell can't you speed them up like you can do normal videos? (by using , and . in a browser)
  - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
    Also they don't show the red progress bar in my subs feed, so I can't know which ones I've already watched. Just end up hiding them as they come, which is yet more busywork slowly driving me off the platform.
- mrweasel 4y ago
  There are browser plugins, and you can remove it from site for 30 days at a time, at least on the desktop.
  - pleb_nz 4y ago
    Yeah, I don't use YouTube in the browser otherwise that so3und be perfect
Consultant32452 4y ago
It's also ripe for weaponization. We know, for example, that FB did experiments where they intentionally made people depressed by adjusting what was in their feeds. It would be trivially easy to target a country or group of end users and gently nudge them towards depression and likely other outcomes by adjusting their feeds. All the major social media companies have ties to their parent governments and often openly with the intelligence communities. This type of thing would fall under 5th generation warfare. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generations_of_warfare#Fifth_generation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generations_of_warfare#Fifth_g...
- unity1001 4y ago
  This is why algorithm control must be handed over to the users by providing them ways to set and customize the algorithm.
  - Consultant32452 4y ago
    If you had control over the algorithm, how many votes do you think you could change?
wutbrodo 4y ago
Could you elaborate on what makes it so addictive? Neither Tiktok nor YT Shorts seem to "work" on me, but I've heard from a lot of people, including intelligent & thoughtful people that I respect, that Tiktok's recommendation algorithm is unusually fantastic. I was a little skeptical that Tiktok had broken new ground in a _very_ well-trod space, and had chalked it up to the format and volume of content, which you'd expect to extend to YT shorts too. It sounds like you share this perspective, so I'd be interested to hear more about what you consider to be so addictive about the format. This isn't some slyly-boastful "what's the big deal, _I_ don't have any issue with it", comment. I assume that this particular hook just missed my brain, and there are others that grab me more (I'm def not thrilled with the amt that I use Twitter). I'm just genuinely curious about the details of what makes the format so hyper-addictive, and can't really explore it by experimenting with my own brain.
- grog454 4y ago
  I have this same question. I've tried using Tiktok twice. Both times I was as honest as I can be about my interests and both times it quickly devolves into stuff I simply don't care about and will never deliberately take time out of my day to seek out. Just had a thought... is there a psychology to "idle browsing" that I just don't have? I never browse the Google Play store for apps but more than 50% of users discover my apps this way. I never browse Netflix for recommendations. I almost never browse Youtube's recommendations unless I'm listening to a playlist and want to discover similar music (while doing something else). In almost all of these contexts I discover content through word of mouth or browsing discussion forums and search for exactly what I'm looking for.
  - darkwater 4y ago
    From what you explain, you are clearly an outlier. If on one side of the bell curve there are the "whales", you are probably... a plancton?
  - wutbrodo 4y ago
    I put a couple of cumulative hours into it, purely to seed/discover the supposedly-fantastic recommendation algorithm. I was drowning in videos of cute couples doing inane things until I started doing the couple extra clicks to indicate Not Interested. After that it got a bit more diverse, but I somehow don't seem to have left seemingly-generic content behind, and at no point did I get any inkling of the "just one more video" flow that I've heard about.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
nottorp 4y ago
It's not like the people are blameless. Before online, most just turned on the TV and watched whatever was on. Then you binged series on Netflix. Now you open youtube or tiktok or whatever and watch whatever is on. While the companies behind the videos are probably more predatory than what was there in the past, the tendency is there in everyone. Maybe the way to get out of this is to educate people that binge watching video content is not good for you.
- pleb_nz 4y ago
  I'm the opposite. YouTube was binge watched before netflix, then Netflix, now, it's swung back to youtube. Problem is now they're pushing shorts which suck. If I wanted short content I'd sign up to TikTok or Instagram. Personally I think youtube should target longer content which will, I think, probably outlast short content.
  - mrweasel 4y ago
    The length of content on YouTube is a bit weird for me. I don't like Shorts, for multiple reasons, but length is one of them. It's hard to do meaningful content in less than one minute. Some are able to and make good stuff though. I also don't like 20 minute videos, because they seem to be mostly stretched to facilitate monetization and ads. 10 minutes is the sweet spot for me, but that's not longer viable for the creators.
FractalHQ 4y ago
Shorts algorithms are trash. All of the content is braindead mainstream hogwash, none of which I remotely enjoy or watch on YouTube. I imagine Tiktok would not have this problem based on what I’ve heard.
- solardev 4y ago
  Isn't it tied into your viewing history? I get a bunch of cool engineering, physics, and chemistry demos. It's like a personal Bill Nye for me. Oh, and cat videos lol.
  - mrweasel 4y ago
    Absolutely not, there are two channels I’ve watched mixed in, but it also the two only Shorts creators I enjoy. The rest is just mind numbingly dumb or down right extremist. Over a period of five years I’ve reported maybe three videos. Last week I reported ten Shorts. The reports range from misleading and copy right violation to encouring suicide, violence and endangerment. YouTube simply does not care, Shorts are there to defend against TikTok, so it bypass any existing algorithmes.
    - solardev 4y ago
      Oh really? I believe you. I probably just haven't used it enough to see the bad shit yet. Only spent maybe an hour or two total on it before losing interest.

pleb_nz 4y ago

YouTube shorts is the biggest thing I wish I could disable on my modern internet experience. So I personally think it's a failure for me as a market

ajsnigrutin 4y ago
yep... also, why the hell can't you speed them up like you can do normal videos? (by using , and . in a browser)
- hypertele-Xii 4y ago
  Also they don't show the red progress bar in my subs feed, so I can't know which ones I've already watched. Just end up hiding them as they come, which is yet more busywork slowly driving me off the platform.
mrweasel 4y ago
There are browser plugins, and you can remove it from site for 30 days at a time, at least on the desktop.
- pleb_nz 4y ago
  Yeah, I don't use YouTube in the browser otherwise that so3und be perfect

Consultant32452 4y ago

It's also ripe for weaponization. We know, for example, that FB did experiments where they intentionally made people depressed by adjusting what was in their feeds. It would be trivially easy to target a country or group of end users and gently nudge them towards depression and likely other outcomes by adjusting their feeds. All the major social media companies have ties to their parent governments and often openly with the intelligence communities. This type of thing would fall under 5th generation warfare. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generations_of_warfare#Fifth_generation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generations_of_warfare#Fifth_g...

unity1001 4y ago
This is why algorithm control must be handed over to the users by providing them ways to set and customize the algorithm.
- Consultant32452 4y ago
  If you had control over the algorithm, how many votes do you think you could change?

wutbrodo 4y ago

Could you elaborate on what makes it so addictive? Neither Tiktok nor YT Shorts seem to "work" on me, but I've heard from a lot of people, including intelligent & thoughtful people that I respect, that Tiktok's recommendation algorithm is unusually fantastic. I was a little skeptical that Tiktok had broken new ground in a _very_ well-trod space, and had chalked it up to the format and volume of content, which you'd expect to extend to YT shorts too. It sounds like you share this perspective, so I'd be interested to hear more about what you consider to be so addictive about the format. This isn't some slyly-boastful "what's the big deal, _I_ don't have any issue with it", comment. I assume that this particular hook just missed my brain, and there are others that grab me more (I'm def not thrilled with the amt that I use Twitter). I'm just genuinely curious about the details of what makes the format so hyper-addictive, and can't really explore it by experimenting with my own brain.

grog454 4y ago
I have this same question. I've tried using Tiktok twice. Both times I was as honest as I can be about my interests and both times it quickly devolves into stuff I simply don't care about and will never deliberately take time out of my day to seek out. Just had a thought... is there a psychology to "idle browsing" that I just don't have? I never browse the Google Play store for apps but more than 50% of users discover my apps this way. I never browse Netflix for recommendations. I almost never browse Youtube's recommendations unless I'm listening to a playlist and want to discover similar music (while doing something else). In almost all of these contexts I discover content through word of mouth or browsing discussion forums and search for exactly what I'm looking for.
- darkwater 4y ago
  From what you explain, you are clearly an outlier. If on one side of the bell curve there are the "whales", you are probably... a plancton?
- wutbrodo 4y ago
  I put a couple of cumulative hours into it, purely to seed/discover the supposedly-fantastic recommendation algorithm. I was drowning in videos of cute couples doing inane things until I started doing the couple extra clicks to indicate Not Interested. After that it got a bit more diverse, but I somehow don't seem to have left seemingly-generic content behind, and at no point did I get any inkling of the "just one more video" flow that I've heard about.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

nottorp 4y ago

It's not like the people are blameless. Before online, most just turned on the TV and watched whatever was on. Then you binged series on Netflix. Now you open youtube or tiktok or whatever and watch whatever is on. While the companies behind the videos are probably more predatory than what was there in the past, the tendency is there in everyone. Maybe the way to get out of this is to educate people that binge watching video content is not good for you.

pleb_nz 4y ago
I'm the opposite. YouTube was binge watched before netflix, then Netflix, now, it's swung back to youtube. Problem is now they're pushing shorts which suck. If I wanted short content I'd sign up to TikTok or Instagram. Personally I think youtube should target longer content which will, I think, probably outlast short content.
- mrweasel 4y ago
  The length of content on YouTube is a bit weird for me. I don't like Shorts, for multiple reasons, but length is one of them. It's hard to do meaningful content in less than one minute. Some are able to and make good stuff though. I also don't like 20 minute videos, because they seem to be mostly stretched to facilitate monetization and ads. 10 minutes is the sweet spot for me, but that's not longer viable for the creators.

FractalHQ 4y ago

Shorts algorithms are trash. All of the content is braindead mainstream hogwash, none of which I remotely enjoy or watch on YouTube. I imagine Tiktok would not have this problem based on what I’ve heard.

solardev 4y ago
Isn't it tied into your viewing history? I get a bunch of cool engineering, physics, and chemistry demos. It's like a personal Bill Nye for me. Oh, and cat videos lol.
- mrweasel 4y ago
  Absolutely not, there are two channels I’ve watched mixed in, but it also the two only Shorts creators I enjoy. The rest is just mind numbingly dumb or down right extremist. Over a period of five years I’ve reported maybe three videos. Last week I reported ten Shorts. The reports range from misleading and copy right violation to encouring suicide, violence and endangerment. YouTube simply does not care, Shorts are there to defend against TikTok, so it bypass any existing algorithmes.
  - solardev 4y ago
    Oh really? I believe you. I probably just haven't used it enough to see the bad shit yet. Only spent maybe an hour or two total on it before losing interest.