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This is an extremely short-sighted move by Apple with no upside to the customer: - Traveling abroad will be a hassle: Multiple countries (and especially smalle

This is an extremely short-sighted move by Apple with no upside to the customer: - Traveling abroad will be a hassle: Multiple countries (and especially smaller carriers) *do not* offer eSIM functionality (and/or it is more cumbersome to get than advertized). Planning a trip to a developing country? You're in for a surprisedpikachu face when your expensive device $800-1000 can't use basic phone functionality compared to a basic $100 phone. Step outside the international airport in Cambodia (like I did just a few days back) and ask for eSIM - and you're going to get stares. Physical SIM is the way to go in developing and under-developed countries. - "But I can just use an app!" argument does not work: Sure you can. There are apps like Airalo and others but - they're often targeted around offering data only and are often more expensive than buying a local physical SIM. - Moving abroad with new iPhone will be a challenge: Good chunk of regular business travelers or expats living in developing countries. I actually know a girl who moved to India for a couple months' project and was trying to set up eSIM with a carrier in India for days. Physical SIM took 5 minutes to swap!

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razemio 4y ago
It is very naive to think it will stay this way. Now that Apple made this move, cell providers in any country will be forced to provide e-sims to stay in business. Apple has such a huge influence it won't take years but months even if it only targets us smartphones. Other phone manufacturers will follow this decision sooner than later.
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  I don't think the average phone provider in Cambodia will worry too much about the list revenue from not supporting a particular variant of iPhone 14.
  - cowtools 4y ago
    It will eventually trickle into the low-end android market, especially if it can be used to save cost.
  - greenburger 4y ago
    Guessing you don’t live in Cambodia [0]. [0]https://www.statista.com/statistics/930856/cambodia-mobile-os-share/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/930856/cambodia-mobile-o...
    - AussieWog93 4y ago
      Don't live there but did visit back in 2017. Everyone back then had third-hand used stuff that I suspect was mostly ex-eWaste. Smartphones were not ubiquitous. I see the graph but don't believe it, especially given how much of their economy is tourism.
    - brokenodo 4y ago
      Only the US variants lack a physical SIM tray.
      - wtmt 4y ago
        At least from the Indian experience, I’d wager that tons of iPhones from the US find their way into other countries because it’s way cheaper to get it from there than pay local prices that may include higher customs duties, higher (than US) taxes, etc. It’s possible that a lot of iPhones in Cambodia are/were originally sold in the US.
- Vibgyor5 4y ago
  That's a very North-American-centric view. You're overestimating influence of iPhone customers on telecom providers - especially in developing countries where they're often <5% of the users.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
    In developing countries I'm not sure, but the introduction of eSIM on iPhones is why I can get one in an increasing number of European countries, and it makes travel soooo much easier (and cheaper).
  - razemio 4y ago
    I think especially in developing countries e-sims will be huge. They save cost in the end for phone manufacturers and cell providers. It won't take long until low end android phones will have e-sim only options aswell. Maybe u are right and I am overestimating the influence of apple. Only time can tell.
- mort96 4y ago
  How large of a market share do you think "immigrants from the US who recently immigrated but still use the iPhone 14 they bought in their origin country" makes up? My bet is that it's quite small in a whole lot of places. Will cell providers really scramble to appease them?
wtmt 4y ago
I don’t know what kind of problems the person you’re referring to faced in setting up an eSIM in India, but I wanted to point out that eSIM has been available in India for at least four years or so, with the three major carriers (airtel, Jio and Vi) offering it for postpaid connections. For prepaid, only airtel and Jio offer it. Vi doesn’t offer eSIM so far for prepaid. Perhaps the new iPhones that people in India get from the US (because it’s a lot cheaper) will change that. Apple is also quite stubborn in most of its decisions. So it will be up to the carriers around the world to support eSIM and improve the experience. If I were to guess, I’d say there won’t be physical SIM slots in all iPhones from 2023 (iPhone 15*) unless legally mandated in certain countries. Apple does not like ports and holes on its smartphones and smartwatches, and it will continue eliminating them at its pace.
- Vibgyor5 4y ago
  If you call Airtel to get eSIM OTP or whatever, the answering machine warns in 2-3 languages that "Airtel does not support eSIM". You'll need to have KYC done anyhow but you can't realistically rely on local vendors to help you with that either. Physical SIM takes 5-10 minutes at best. We're talking about one of the largest telecom providers in the second most populated nation on Earth. Most populated country - China - equally does not have adequate eSIM offering either. So you've two nations already with combined 3 Billion+ people who don't have robust eSIM offering. And God forbid if you actually decide to go to some parts of the world (as in Africa), where eSIM is just not supported. Many that do offer eSIM have stringent process, or aren't cheap/no option to call (if you decide to use Airalo and other such apps). So much for a "mobile" phone, especially in our post-Covid world with rising number of digital nomads and people who move countries. There's no upside to customers in this and this isn't about "courage" this time.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

razemio 4y ago

It is very naive to think it will stay this way. Now that Apple made this move, cell providers in any country will be forced to provide e-sims to stay in business. Apple has such a huge influence it won't take years but months even if it only targets us smartphones. Other phone manufacturers will follow this decision sooner than later.

AussieWog93 4y ago
I don't think the average phone provider in Cambodia will worry too much about the list revenue from not supporting a particular variant of iPhone 14.
- cowtools 4y ago
  It will eventually trickle into the low-end android market, especially if it can be used to save cost.
- greenburger 4y ago
  Guessing you don’t live in Cambodia [0]. [0]https://www.statista.com/statistics/930856/cambodia-mobile-os-share/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/930856/cambodia-mobile-o...
  - AussieWog93 4y ago
    Don't live there but did visit back in 2017. Everyone back then had third-hand used stuff that I suspect was mostly ex-eWaste. Smartphones were not ubiquitous. I see the graph but don't believe it, especially given how much of their economy is tourism.
  - brokenodo 4y ago
    Only the US variants lack a physical SIM tray.
    - wtmt 4y ago
      At least from the Indian experience, I’d wager that tons of iPhones from the US find their way into other countries because it’s way cheaper to get it from there than pay local prices that may include higher customs duties, higher (than US) taxes, etc. It’s possible that a lot of iPhones in Cambodia are/were originally sold in the US.
Vibgyor5 4y ago
That's a very North-American-centric view. You're overestimating influence of iPhone customers on telecom providers - especially in developing countries where they're often <5% of the users.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
  In developing countries I'm not sure, but the introduction of eSIM on iPhones is why I can get one in an increasing number of European countries, and it makes travel soooo much easier (and cheaper).
- razemio 4y ago
  I think especially in developing countries e-sims will be huge. They save cost in the end for phone manufacturers and cell providers. It won't take long until low end android phones will have e-sim only options aswell. Maybe u are right and I am overestimating the influence of apple. Only time can tell.
mort96 4y ago
How large of a market share do you think "immigrants from the US who recently immigrated but still use the iPhone 14 they bought in their origin country" makes up? My bet is that it's quite small in a whole lot of places. Will cell providers really scramble to appease them?

wtmt 4y ago

I don’t know what kind of problems the person you’re referring to faced in setting up an eSIM in India, but I wanted to point out that eSIM has been available in India for at least four years or so, with the three major carriers (airtel, Jio and Vi) offering it for postpaid connections. For prepaid, only airtel and Jio offer it. Vi doesn’t offer eSIM so far for prepaid. Perhaps the new iPhones that people in India get from the US (because it’s a lot cheaper) will change that. Apple is also quite stubborn in most of its decisions. So it will be up to the carriers around the world to support eSIM and improve the experience. If I were to guess, I’d say there won’t be physical SIM slots in all iPhones from 2023 (iPhone 15*) unless legally mandated in certain countries. Apple does not like ports and holes on its smartphones and smartwatches, and it will continue eliminating them at its pace.

Vibgyor5 4y ago
If you call Airtel to get eSIM OTP or whatever, the answering machine warns in 2-3 languages that "Airtel does not support eSIM". You'll need to have KYC done anyhow but you can't realistically rely on local vendors to help you with that either. Physical SIM takes 5-10 minutes at best. We're talking about one of the largest telecom providers in the second most populated nation on Earth. Most populated country - China - equally does not have adequate eSIM offering either. So you've two nations already with combined 3 Billion+ people who don't have robust eSIM offering. And God forbid if you actually decide to go to some parts of the world (as in Africa), where eSIM is just not supported. Many that do offer eSIM have stringent process, or aren't cheap/no option to call (if you decide to use Airalo and other such apps). So much for a "mobile" phone, especially in our post-Covid world with rising number of digital nomads and people who move countries. There's no upside to customers in this and this isn't about "courage" this time.