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It seems many of the policies advocated for by “the woke” are motivated by such simplistic logic that they ultimately have the opposite effect of their intentio

by onos 4y ago

It seems many of the policies advocated for by “the woke” are motivated by such simplistic logic that they ultimately have the opposite effect of their intentions. We must balance grace with truth. Of course in this case oberlin leadership just acted very poorly and there is no excuse.

rayiner 4y ago
The "grace" framing makes it sound like it's about being fair to white people. I have some sympathy for people who are falsely accused, but honestly shit happens. My point is different: that exaggerating racism harms non-white people. I know other Asians who say stuff like "oh, I wouldn't want to go to the south because people are racist." And they're missing out on good food, warm weather, and friendly people. Trump won my precinct (which weirdly encompasses just my subdivision) 58-34 in 2016 when I moved there. It's a lovely place to live with lots of kids and friendly neighbors. A minority who is told by authority figures that the local bakery in Oberlin Ohio is a hotbed of racism might be too scared to come where I live. And that's not good for anybody.
- greenyoda 4y ago
  > I know other Asians who say stuff like "oh, I wouldn't want to go to the south because people are racist." Interestingly, it was southern states that elected the first two governors of Indian descent: Bobby Jindal in Louisiana (2008-2016)[1] and Nikki Haley in South Carolina (2011-2017)[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jindal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jindal [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikki_Haley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikki_Haley
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - rayiner 4y ago
    An Indian American has a better shot running for governor in a red southern state than in Maryland or New York. In blue states, race quite explicitly matters a lot in politics. But Indians are at a disadvantage because they Indian voter community is small compared to Black or Hispanic people.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      Did you look at actual data about that, or does it just sound right? Wikipedia's lists of Indian-American politicians doesn't appear to bear this out.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - rayiner 4y ago
        Are you accounting for the fact that Asians overwhelmingly live in blue states? 40% of Indians live in just California, New York, and New Jersey. The latter two states have no federal or statewide south Asian politicians. California has had four, but none in statewide office. (Not counting Harris, who identifies as politically Black.) Red state desis represent a small share of the overall south Asian immigrant population—they mostly come from an earlier wave of migration that has since been vastly outnumbered by post-H1B immigrants to coastal hubs—but have seen outsized success in appointed and elected positions.
        tptacek 4y ago
        I didn't account for anything; I just read what you wrote, said to myself "hm", and went to see if there was data. I'm just asking if you have data. I'm not dunking on you, just trying to calibrate where your comment lies on the spectrum of message board truth.
        rayiner 4y ago
        Indian Americans are a small minority, and Indian American politicians are an even smaller one. I don’t think there is anything but anecdote from which to draw impressions. I think that’s pretty obvious from the nature of the subject without needing a bunch of throat clearing in the comment.
- fennecfoxy 4y ago
  "that exaggerating racism harms non-white people" Of course it does, but you phrased it in a way that implies that the racist aggressors are always white. Exaggerating racism & racism itself hurts _everyone_. There are people that are racist to white people, there are non-white people that are racist other non-white people. It's racism itself, in a general sense that we're fighting. I think especially in a non-white context, as it's so ignored - I've had non-white friends be incredibly racist to other cultures and it's oddly just a weirdly accepted thing. Like before recent events in Hong Kong, a friend of mine from there talking about "mainlanders" and how trashy/uncultured/animals they are.

by onos 4y ago

rayiner 4y ago

The "grace" framing makes it sound like it's about being fair to white people. I have some sympathy for people who are falsely accused, but honestly shit happens. My point is different: that exaggerating racism harms non-white people. I know other Asians who say stuff like "oh, I wouldn't want to go to the south because people are racist." And they're missing out on good food, warm weather, and friendly people. Trump won my precinct (which weirdly encompasses just my subdivision) 58-34 in 2016 when I moved there. It's a lovely place to live with lots of kids and friendly neighbors. A minority who is told by authority figures that the local bakery in Oberlin Ohio is a hotbed of racism might be too scared to come where I live. And that's not good for anybody.

greenyoda 4y ago
> I know other Asians who say stuff like "oh, I wouldn't want to go to the south because people are racist." Interestingly, it was southern states that elected the first two governors of Indian descent: Bobby Jindal in Louisiana (2008-2016)[1] and Nikki Haley in South Carolina (2011-2017)[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jindal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jindal [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikki_Haley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikki_Haley
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- rayiner 4y ago
  An Indian American has a better shot running for governor in a red southern state than in Maryland or New York. In blue states, race quite explicitly matters a lot in politics. But Indians are at a disadvantage because they Indian voter community is small compared to Black or Hispanic people.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    Did you look at actual data about that, or does it just sound right? Wikipedia's lists of Indian-American politicians doesn't appear to bear this out.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - rayiner 4y ago
      Are you accounting for the fact that Asians overwhelmingly live in blue states? 40% of Indians live in just California, New York, and New Jersey. The latter two states have no federal or statewide south Asian politicians. California has had four, but none in statewide office. (Not counting Harris, who identifies as politically Black.) Red state desis represent a small share of the overall south Asian immigrant population—they mostly come from an earlier wave of migration that has since been vastly outnumbered by post-H1B immigrants to coastal hubs—but have seen outsized success in appointed and elected positions.
      - tptacek 4y ago
        I didn't account for anything; I just read what you wrote, said to myself "hm", and went to see if there was data. I'm just asking if you have data. I'm not dunking on you, just trying to calibrate where your comment lies on the spectrum of message board truth.
        rayiner 4y ago
        Indian Americans are a small minority, and Indian American politicians are an even smaller one. I don’t think there is anything but anecdote from which to draw impressions. I think that’s pretty obvious from the nature of the subject without needing a bunch of throat clearing in the comment.
fennecfoxy 4y ago
"that exaggerating racism harms non-white people" Of course it does, but you phrased it in a way that implies that the racist aggressors are always white. Exaggerating racism & racism itself hurts _everyone_. There are people that are racist to white people, there are non-white people that are racist other non-white people. It's racism itself, in a general sense that we're fighting. I think especially in a non-white context, as it's so ignored - I've had non-white friends be incredibly racist to other cultures and it's oddly just a weirdly accepted thing. Like before recent events in Hong Kong, a friend of mine from there talking about "mainlanders" and how trashy/uncultured/animals they are.