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So basically. As of now, Apple does nothing as they backed down from that plan. And google reports you to authorities and never stopped and also never went pu

So basically. As of now, Apple does nothing as they backed down from that plan. And google reports you to authorities and never stopped and also never went public about letting you know they were doing it (at least apple published a freaking press release to announce it and ask for feedback!) And somehow that makes Apple worse.

gpm 4y ago
To be clear, Apples current actual activities is the same as Googles current actual activites. They scan files uploaded to their cloud services and report you to the authorities if they discover illegal material. Both companies are of course unable to detect CSAM in encrypted files, and Apple encrypts more files by default meaning that the impact of their current policy is somewhat less than Googles. Neither company has ever felt the need to make splashy press releases about this. Apple additionally has said that they will (though have backed off on the timing to "some time in the future") said that they will use your hardware to scan your photos and have it report you to the authorities.
- judge2020 4y ago
  > To be clear, Apples current actual activities is the same as Googles current actual activites. They scan files uploaded to their cloud services and report you to the authorities if they discover illegal material Actually, they don't, at least according to Hacker Factor. There's definitely not only 160 images of CSAM uploaded to iCloud Photos every year. > Of all of the companies identified by NCMEC, I only saw one that had an unexpected decrease in reporting: Apple. According to NMEC, Apple submitted 205 reports in 2019 (a third my my reporting volume). Apple increased a little, to 265 in 2020, but then dropped in 2021 to only 160 reports. That's nearly a 22% decrease over two years! https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/955-NCMEC-2021-Reporting.html https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/955-NC...
  - gpm 4y ago
    Interesting, Apples privacy policy says that they can scan data you upload for illegal content and report it, news articles from when this blew up in the news said that Apple did for services like iMail (that upload in an unencrypted form). I can't speak towards what they actually currently do. My understanding of iCloud photos is that they're encrypted, as in Apple can't scan them on the server, but I'd imagine across they're cloud services they ought to be seeing more unencrypted content than that. I also don't care nearly as much about their servers scanning content that they are in possession of, as my device scanning content that I am in possession of... so I probably should have stayed out of this part of the argument a bit better. Oh well. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ (See Apple's Use of Personal Data) https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/23/apple-scans-icloud-mail-for-csam/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/23/apple-scans-icloud-mail-for-c...
    - ec109685 4y ago
      With a court order, Apple will hand over the contents of an iCloud drive without any encryption to law enforcement. So they could do Google style preemptive scanning of everything uploaded. Adding an encrypted hash to every photo instead seems way better than having access to every photo on iCloud without any encryption.
    - plonk 4y ago
      > My understanding of iCloud photos is that they're encrypted, as in Apple can't scan them on the server iCloud Photos currently aren't encrypted this way, just "in transit and on server" [1]. > iCloud secures your information by encrypting it when it’s in transit, storing it in an encrypted format, and securing your encryption keys in Apple data centers. Both Apple and third-party data centers may be used to store and process your data. This contrasts with services marked "end-to-end" where Apple doesn't have the key. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
lern_too_spel 4y ago
Apple devices are worse because they makes you use Apple services. Android devices let you use your own services. Google has to build its apps using the same APIs as everybody else.

gpm 4y ago

To be clear, Apples current actual activities is the same as Googles current actual activites. They scan files uploaded to their cloud services and report you to the authorities if they discover illegal material. Both companies are of course unable to detect CSAM in encrypted files, and Apple encrypts more files by default meaning that the impact of their current policy is somewhat less than Googles. Neither company has ever felt the need to make splashy press releases about this. Apple additionally has said that they will (though have backed off on the timing to "some time in the future") said that they will use your hardware to scan your photos and have it report you to the authorities.

judge2020 4y ago
> To be clear, Apples current actual activities is the same as Googles current actual activites. They scan files uploaded to their cloud services and report you to the authorities if they discover illegal material Actually, they don't, at least according to Hacker Factor. There's definitely not only 160 images of CSAM uploaded to iCloud Photos every year. > Of all of the companies identified by NCMEC, I only saw one that had an unexpected decrease in reporting: Apple. According to NMEC, Apple submitted 205 reports in 2019 (a third my my reporting volume). Apple increased a little, to 265 in 2020, but then dropped in 2021 to only 160 reports. That's nearly a 22% decrease over two years! https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/955-NCMEC-2021-Reporting.html https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/955-NC...
- gpm 4y ago
  Interesting, Apples privacy policy says that they can scan data you upload for illegal content and report it, news articles from when this blew up in the news said that Apple did for services like iMail (that upload in an unencrypted form). I can't speak towards what they actually currently do. My understanding of iCloud photos is that they're encrypted, as in Apple can't scan them on the server, but I'd imagine across they're cloud services they ought to be seeing more unencrypted content than that. I also don't care nearly as much about their servers scanning content that they are in possession of, as my device scanning content that I am in possession of... so I probably should have stayed out of this part of the argument a bit better. Oh well. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ (See Apple's Use of Personal Data) https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/23/apple-scans-icloud-mail-for-csam/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/23/apple-scans-icloud-mail-for-c...
  - ec109685 4y ago
    With a court order, Apple will hand over the contents of an iCloud drive without any encryption to law enforcement. So they could do Google style preemptive scanning of everything uploaded. Adding an encrypted hash to every photo instead seems way better than having access to every photo on iCloud without any encryption.
  - plonk 4y ago
    > My understanding of iCloud photos is that they're encrypted, as in Apple can't scan them on the server iCloud Photos currently aren't encrypted this way, just "in transit and on server" [1]. > iCloud secures your information by encrypting it when it’s in transit, storing it in an encrypted format, and securing your encryption keys in Apple data centers. Both Apple and third-party data centers may be used to store and process your data. This contrasts with services marked "end-to-end" where Apple doesn't have the key. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

lern_too_spel 4y ago

Apple devices are worse because they makes you use Apple services. Android devices let you use your own services. Google has to build its apps using the same APIs as everybody else.