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Oberlin's response to students: >Dear Obies, >Today, Oberlin College and Conservatory initiated payment in full of the $36.59 million judgment in the Gibson’s

Oberlin's response to students: >Dear Obies, >Today, Oberlin College and Conservatory initiated payment in full of the $36.59 million judgment in the Gibson’s Bakery case, an amount that represents the awarded damages and interest owed. Please see the college’s public statement below. >While this outcome is a disappointment, our financial plans for this possibility, which included insurance coverage, mean that this payment will not impact or diminish our academic or student life experience, or require us to draw down Oberlin’s endowment. >Like me, the majority of the campus was not here at the beginning of this matter in 2016. But it is also true that this case has been difficult for all of us who love this institution and its hometown. I am looking forward to all that is ahead, and remain focused on Oberlin’s core mission of providing a truly excellent liberal arts and musical education. Carmen Ambar Signature Carmen Twillie Ambar So they're basically just claiming insurance will cover it

icelancer 4y ago
As someone who has had insurance cover a nuisance lawsuit's judgment, trust me, the insurer is not very pleased with you. In my case, it was the cost of doing business with the usual trolls going after intellectual property, and even still, the insurer was pretty angry. Oberlin's insurer is going to get them back in the next renewal period considering they were blatantly in the wrong. And all other insurers know; the history is open.
- hilbert42 4y ago
  It seems very odd that any insurer would insure under these circumstances. If one did then it seems even odder that it didn't refuse to pay the claim on the grounds that its insurance didn't cover what could easily be deemed as negligence (risky behavior). I wish I had an insurance company that was so lax with its payouts.
  - icelancer 4y ago
    They might have a tough time getting re-insured after gross negligence, but insurance that covers legal settlements for this kind of thing is normal and expected for almost all medium to large businesses to carry - even my small business carries it (and maybe many more do). It's simply too dangerous to operate in the current American legal environment without this kind of insurance, though it is quite expensive.
    - hilbert42 4y ago
      Right, I'm not in the US even though I've been there many times including having worked there and I've relatives who live there. I suppose I should have given that more thought as I'm well aware of the high litigation factor in the US. Where I am it's significantly less. The trouble with litigation taken to extremes and outrageously high payouts is that it puts a high overhead on everyone who does business. In some ways I'm surprised there hasn't been a significant backlash against this.
      - icelancer 4y ago
        >> The trouble with litigation taken to extremes and outrageously high payouts is that it puts a high overhead on everyone who does business. In some ways I'm surprised there hasn't been a significant backlash against this. All the sums are pretty small, so people just see it as the cost of doing business. In a sense it's true. People love the UK "loser pays" system but it really discourages your average person from filing a lawsuit they don't feel 95% to win. The American legal system allows for plaintiffs to abuse the system, but the upside is that filing lawsuits for recompense is easier for your average person. Everything has tradeoffs. Not saying it's perfect here, but my mind was at least shifted slightly when the above was explained to me.
tarakat 4y ago
> Like me, the majority of the campus was not here at the beginning of this matter in 2016. But they still benefit from the inherited privilege born of these systemic injustices that the bakery case exemplifies.
userbinator 4y ago
While this outcome is a disappointment What wouldn't be? They wish the truth would be erased?
9991 4y ago
So, no apology or acknowledgement they did anything wrong?
- user3939382 4y ago
  Yeah complete non-apology.
- tartoran 4y ago
  When blinded by ideology it’s hard to see things in a clear light. Im sure not only Oberlin but other universities will learn from this. It’s the hefty $sum that will carry this message very far. While I think these lawsuits have ridiculous compensations, they do serve as a deterent in the future
  - antifa 4y ago
    Is there any evidence this was driven by "ideology"? Seems more likely this person was an opportunist or narcissist like Eric Cartman from South Park than a genuine ideological thinker.
- linksnapzz 4y ago
  I wouldn't hold your breath...I doubt anyone who could get into a position of authority at Oberlin could comprehend that what happened was wrong. They would at most regret not getting away with it.
pyuser583 4y ago
> Like me, the majority of the campus was not here at the beginning of this matter in 2016. This is a dynamic not enough people appreciate: universities are not generally permanent communities. This fact is lost again and again in public debate. For example, there’s debate about how allegations of rape should be handled by a university. However the university handles possible rapes, they have to take into account the fact that everyone involved: victim, accuser, and witnesses, might drop out or graduate a week into the investigation.
- devwastaken 4y ago
  Uni lead "investigations" would be illigal under any other context. You are not allowed any rights in their "investigation". No representation. Their is no standard or rules of submitting evidence. The panel is not comprised of qualified jurors, nor are they generally of peers. They're positions applied for, so only those whom want to remove men from universities apply today. Now they're installing far more cameras, telling students to report on one another about everything, and giving campus mall cops free reign to harass students into giving false information and unreasonable search and seizures. Wish I was making that up, but that's what happens when we value "safety" more than rights.
  - pyuser583 4y ago
    What your describing is a standard HR investigation.
- timellis-smith 4y ago
  True, but cultures persist unless there is an active effort to change it. Acknowledging the institution was wrong would be the first step to changing the culture.
  - pyuser583 4y ago
    Acknowledgement from whom? Will the acknowledgment be meaningful to the next class of student? Acknowledging wrongs is most meaningful when all the stakeholders participate. When you are constantly getting new stakeholders, and losing old ones, it’s hard to meaningful buy in.
origin_path 4y ago
"this payment will not impact or diminish our academic or student life experience" Very slippery wording. Their insurance premiums will now presumably be much larger, in which case they'd indeed have to lower spending on other things to cover it. Or possibly they will become un-insurable.
LatteLazy 4y ago
Insurance will then either drop them or insist on changes they feel are sufficient to prevent it happening again. That might include firing people

icelancer 4y ago

As someone who has had insurance cover a nuisance lawsuit's judgment, trust me, the insurer is not very pleased with you. In my case, it was the cost of doing business with the usual trolls going after intellectual property, and even still, the insurer was pretty angry. Oberlin's insurer is going to get them back in the next renewal period considering they were blatantly in the wrong. And all other insurers know; the history is open.

hilbert42 4y ago
It seems very odd that any insurer would insure under these circumstances. If one did then it seems even odder that it didn't refuse to pay the claim on the grounds that its insurance didn't cover what could easily be deemed as negligence (risky behavior). I wish I had an insurance company that was so lax with its payouts.
- icelancer 4y ago
  They might have a tough time getting re-insured after gross negligence, but insurance that covers legal settlements for this kind of thing is normal and expected for almost all medium to large businesses to carry - even my small business carries it (and maybe many more do). It's simply too dangerous to operate in the current American legal environment without this kind of insurance, though it is quite expensive.
  - hilbert42 4y ago
    Right, I'm not in the US even though I've been there many times including having worked there and I've relatives who live there. I suppose I should have given that more thought as I'm well aware of the high litigation factor in the US. Where I am it's significantly less. The trouble with litigation taken to extremes and outrageously high payouts is that it puts a high overhead on everyone who does business. In some ways I'm surprised there hasn't been a significant backlash against this.
    - icelancer 4y ago
      >> The trouble with litigation taken to extremes and outrageously high payouts is that it puts a high overhead on everyone who does business. In some ways I'm surprised there hasn't been a significant backlash against this. All the sums are pretty small, so people just see it as the cost of doing business. In a sense it's true. People love the UK "loser pays" system but it really discourages your average person from filing a lawsuit they don't feel 95% to win. The American legal system allows for plaintiffs to abuse the system, but the upside is that filing lawsuits for recompense is easier for your average person. Everything has tradeoffs. Not saying it's perfect here, but my mind was at least shifted slightly when the above was explained to me.

tarakat 4y ago

> Like me, the majority of the campus was not here at the beginning of this matter in 2016. But they still benefit from the inherited privilege born of these systemic injustices that the bakery case exemplifies.

userbinator 4y ago

While this outcome is a disappointment What wouldn't be? They wish the truth would be erased?

9991 4y ago

So, no apology or acknowledgement they did anything wrong?

user3939382 4y ago
Yeah complete non-apology.
tartoran 4y ago
When blinded by ideology it’s hard to see things in a clear light. Im sure not only Oberlin but other universities will learn from this. It’s the hefty $sum that will carry this message very far. While I think these lawsuits have ridiculous compensations, they do serve as a deterent in the future
- antifa 4y ago
  Is there any evidence this was driven by "ideology"? Seems more likely this person was an opportunist or narcissist like Eric Cartman from South Park than a genuine ideological thinker.
linksnapzz 4y ago
I wouldn't hold your breath...I doubt anyone who could get into a position of authority at Oberlin could comprehend that what happened was wrong. They would at most regret not getting away with it.

pyuser583 4y ago

> Like me, the majority of the campus was not here at the beginning of this matter in 2016. This is a dynamic not enough people appreciate: universities are not generally permanent communities. This fact is lost again and again in public debate. For example, there’s debate about how allegations of rape should be handled by a university. However the university handles possible rapes, they have to take into account the fact that everyone involved: victim, accuser, and witnesses, might drop out or graduate a week into the investigation.

devwastaken 4y ago
Uni lead "investigations" would be illigal under any other context. You are not allowed any rights in their "investigation". No representation. Their is no standard or rules of submitting evidence. The panel is not comprised of qualified jurors, nor are they generally of peers. They're positions applied for, so only those whom want to remove men from universities apply today. Now they're installing far more cameras, telling students to report on one another about everything, and giving campus mall cops free reign to harass students into giving false information and unreasonable search and seizures. Wish I was making that up, but that's what happens when we value "safety" more than rights.
- pyuser583 4y ago
  What your describing is a standard HR investigation.
timellis-smith 4y ago
True, but cultures persist unless there is an active effort to change it. Acknowledging the institution was wrong would be the first step to changing the culture.
- pyuser583 4y ago
  Acknowledgement from whom? Will the acknowledgment be meaningful to the next class of student? Acknowledging wrongs is most meaningful when all the stakeholders participate. When you are constantly getting new stakeholders, and losing old ones, it’s hard to meaningful buy in.

origin_path 4y ago

"this payment will not impact or diminish our academic or student life experience" Very slippery wording. Their insurance premiums will now presumably be much larger, in which case they'd indeed have to lower spending on other things to cover it. Or possibly they will become un-insurable.

LatteLazy 4y ago

Insurance will then either drop them or insist on changes they feel are sufficient to prevent it happening again. That might include firing people