4 ms·

This is propaganda. Nearly all the homeless you see on the streets are addicted to heroin, fentanyl, or meth, or some combination. You cannot afford housing at

This is propaganda. Nearly all the homeless you see on the streets are addicted to heroin, fentanyl, or meth, or some combination. You cannot afford housing at any level when you’re doing those kind of drugs. And most of the homeless in San Francisco aren’t locals.. the vast majority come here for the permissive drug laws, social benefits like SF’s homeless assistance program that pays them $500, and the weather.

Pxtl 4y ago
Yes but every city has heroin and fentanyl problems and yet the addicts don't flood the streets. These drugs weren't invented in SF and Vancouver, and yet those cities are blighted by them. Across the board, on a city-but-city basis, homelessness correlates with housing costs more than any other factor
- shuckles 4y ago
  Atherton is way more expensive than San Francisco yet no sidewalk fentanyl dens. What gives?
davidw 4y ago
It's odd how people pretty intuitively understand that not many people have, say, Ferraris because they're expensive, but housing? It's like some kind of 10th dimension twilight zone where the laws of supply and demand have ceased to exist. No... someone who's homeless in a city where the average house costs 1.5 million dollars must perforce have moral failings! I mean, not to say there aren't homeless people with problems, but there are also filthy rich people with raging drug addictions in that area...
- ralusek 4y ago
  A person's options aren't limited to: A.) Live in most expensive city in world or B.) Be homeless in most expensive city in world If housing prices have become unaffordable for many people in SF, there are other places on the planet. I moved out of SF 2 years ago, after living there for 7, partly due to outrageous cost. Nobody is making the claim that supply and demand doesn't exist for housing, they're claiming that supply isn't limited to the highly sought after, geographically contained peninsula of the bay. They're also claiming that "housing first" is an absurd oversimplification of the problem, and disregards all manner of highly important factors.
  - hackerlight 4y ago
    This market efficiency/rational agent argument often doesn't hold up. For you, it does, because you're probably highly intelligent, highly educated, and have some baseline wealth. But at the margins, if someone has 80 IQ, perhaps has some mental health issues, doesn't know anyone anywhere outside of SF, and isn't even aware of the fact that SF is comparatively much more expensive because they've never travelled and aren't online like we are, and doesn't have the money that it takes to pick up and move, let alone the cognitive planning ability to take the required sequence of actions, they can easily fall through the cracks and become homeless.
- diogenescynic 4y ago
  That’s a very stupid analogy honestly. No one is forced to buy a Ferrari the way no one is forced to live in an expensive area. It’s almost like you didn’t read my entire comment. The overwhelming majority of the visibly homeless on the streets of SF aren’t even from here, I give them money and ask their story sometimes out of curiosity. Most of them came here for the drugs and social services. And with the disability and other entitlements they receive, they could afford an apartment in another city—-but most don’t really care about housing as a priority. They like being able to live without rules and consequences and we’ve enabled that.
  - stale2002 4y ago
    Ok, but the point still stands that it is still a good thing to have more housing supply. No, it does not solve all the worlds problems immediately. But it helps with some of them.
  - davidw 4y ago
    It holds up fine if you think about it for like two seconds. It's only possible to purchase Ferraris in San Fran, no other cheaper kind of vehicle is available. So a lot of people have no vehicle at all.

Pxtl 4y ago

Yes but every city has heroin and fentanyl problems and yet the addicts don't flood the streets. These drugs weren't invented in SF and Vancouver, and yet those cities are blighted by them. Across the board, on a city-but-city basis, homelessness correlates with housing costs more than any other factor

shuckles 4y ago
Atherton is way more expensive than San Francisco yet no sidewalk fentanyl dens. What gives?

davidw 4y ago

It's odd how people pretty intuitively understand that not many people have, say, Ferraris because they're expensive, but housing? It's like some kind of 10th dimension twilight zone where the laws of supply and demand have ceased to exist. No... someone who's homeless in a city where the average house costs 1.5 million dollars must perforce have moral failings! I mean, not to say there aren't homeless people with problems, but there are also filthy rich people with raging drug addictions in that area...

ralusek 4y ago
A person's options aren't limited to: A.) Live in most expensive city in world or B.) Be homeless in most expensive city in world If housing prices have become unaffordable for many people in SF, there are other places on the planet. I moved out of SF 2 years ago, after living there for 7, partly due to outrageous cost. Nobody is making the claim that supply and demand doesn't exist for housing, they're claiming that supply isn't limited to the highly sought after, geographically contained peninsula of the bay. They're also claiming that "housing first" is an absurd oversimplification of the problem, and disregards all manner of highly important factors.
- hackerlight 4y ago
  This market efficiency/rational agent argument often doesn't hold up. For you, it does, because you're probably highly intelligent, highly educated, and have some baseline wealth. But at the margins, if someone has 80 IQ, perhaps has some mental health issues, doesn't know anyone anywhere outside of SF, and isn't even aware of the fact that SF is comparatively much more expensive because they've never travelled and aren't online like we are, and doesn't have the money that it takes to pick up and move, let alone the cognitive planning ability to take the required sequence of actions, they can easily fall through the cracks and become homeless.
diogenescynic 4y ago
That’s a very stupid analogy honestly. No one is forced to buy a Ferrari the way no one is forced to live in an expensive area. It’s almost like you didn’t read my entire comment. The overwhelming majority of the visibly homeless on the streets of SF aren’t even from here, I give them money and ask their story sometimes out of curiosity. Most of them came here for the drugs and social services. And with the disability and other entitlements they receive, they could afford an apartment in another city—-but most don’t really care about housing as a priority. They like being able to live without rules and consequences and we’ve enabled that.
- stale2002 4y ago
  Ok, but the point still stands that it is still a good thing to have more housing supply. No, it does not solve all the worlds problems immediately. But it helps with some of them.
- davidw 4y ago
  It holds up fine if you think about it for like two seconds. It's only possible to purchase Ferraris in San Fran, no other cheaper kind of vehicle is available. So a lot of people have no vehicle at all.