3 ms·

The alternative isn’t these creators giving their content away; the alternative is these creators using one of the dozens of paid-video-course hosting platforms

by derefr 4y ago

The alternative isn’t these creators giving their content away; the alternative is these creators using one of the dozens of paid-video-course hosting platforms that have sprung up. This isn’t going to put a paywall in front of any content that didn’t already have a paywall in front of it.

moffkalast 4y ago
Well maybe, but on the other hand this makes pay walling far more trivial and accessible, so it'll likely be even more common. Google just wants that Nebula money.
- derefr 4y ago
  (FYI, Nebula is a bad analogy, because it exists not to do anything like courseware, but rather because a bunch of creators don't believe in YouTube as a long-lasting + stable revenue engine that won't betray them one day. There's nothing YouTube could offer to make the channels with Nebula extras switch back to posting only on YouTube. Other than, maybe, offering them a contract that basically makes YouTube into a B2B video-hosting platform where the content-creator is treated as a paying customer that deserves things like SLAs, and a human customer-success agent being in the signal chain between copyright strikes and account suspension. Which will seemingly never happen.)
  - squeaky-clean 4y ago
    I think the GP commenter was referring to Nebula's recent new strategy "Nebula Classes" https://blog.nebula.app/nebula-classes/ https://blog.nebula.app/nebula-classes/
  - nickzana 4y ago
    Nebula has also recently started selling skillshare/masterclass-esque classes in addition to the main video platform product. Many (maybe all???) are taught by existing Nebula creators. The classes are advertised on the Nebula homepage to subscribers, but require additional payment.
zwaps 4y ago
On your very last point, you seem to be wrong. These commercial platforms are neither accessible for everyone, nor do they offer the sort of reach as youtube. The choice then is paid content somewhere, or ads on youtube. By contrast, you now can chose between ads and no ads, both on youtube (and the former likely with algorithmic support). That's a different calculus that - as it seems to me - should imply more paid content than before, contradicting your statement.
- derefr 4y ago
  Let me phrase more precisely: as a result of this, there is not going to be any paywalled content created that otherwise would have been created as free ad-supported content. There is only going to be paywalled content created that otherwise would have been paywalled somewhere else, or not created at all. Media entrepreneurs set out to run a certain kind of business, revenue-engine-wise; and they choose their distribution channels by what will allow them to do the revenue model they have in mind. They don't compromise on their plans by choosing a channel with a larger reach but an entirely different revenue model. If they can't start a business with the revenue model they had in mind, then they just don't start that business. (They might start some entirely different business that does fit the revenue model of the channel; but that'd be a ground-up re-think, and probably have nothing in common with the original business.) A TV-series creative planner doesn't "compromise" when they can't get their TV pitch greenlit, by turning around and making a Hollywood movie or "direct-to-VHS" miniseries instead. Those are entirely different revenue models, and so require entirely different development strategies — different budgets, different teams, even different content! Same with educational content. You don't put the sorts of courseware videos you'd publish on Coursera, on YouTube as ad-supported recommendation-discovered videos. They don't belong there. People won't watch them, and you won't (currently) make any money. (For one thing — as another comment thread here attests — they aren't designed to be clickbait in the way that YouTube videos are, so they'll be ignored by the recommendation engine.) If you're already creating that type of content, you're currently creating it for some other platform where it works, and ignoring YouTube. Now YouTube will be one more "platform where it works." That doesn't change anything about whether you will have made this type of content. It only (maybe) changes how much money you'll make doing it, and so moves a few people over from "not creating educational content at all" to "creating courseware on YouTube." Just like happens incrementally every time one of the other dozens of such courseware sites pop up.
ekianjo 4y ago
Laughable. If you have some following on youtube you are not giving away your content you get ads and sponsorship money from it. They are already getting paid for it and the proof is that there are a growing amount of full time streamers or content producers.
ajsnigrutin 4y ago
Yes, but you as a consumer choose youtube, because you pretty much know that all the content there (from your home feed to search result, to related videos) is free. You start with a soldering tutorial, then click on the related video on how to solder SMD components, then a related video about how transistors work, then you find a nice documentary about the history of computing, about enigma, etc... so you click through videos, watch (or adblock) the ads, and learn a bunch of stuff. Now, most (or even all) of those related videos will be replaced by "pay to watch" videos, and i'm 99.9% sure, that the algorithms will prioritize paid video over free content, so all the free stuff will get buried, and you're left with shitty paid content of worse quality than those old, free videos.
- rchaud 4y ago
  Anybody who has used YT for learning purposes will have quickly realized the limits of "free". There are numerous channels with click bait titles that are little more than upsells to their paid courses. Quality courses (not referring to pre-recorded uni lectures) are not given away for free.
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    Maybe not full longform courses, but there was A LOT of great free content. Have to open a laptop to replace the hard drive? No service manual? Just google "XY-123 laptop disassembly", and you'll get a video. Now, a "XY-123 disassembly course", only $1.99.
    - tpoacher 4y ago
      on the plus side, let's hope this drives a significant enough portion of traffic to things like peertube, odysee, archive, self-hosted vids etc, to create the required network effect that will make them viable alternatives.

by derefr 4y ago

moffkalast 4y ago

Well maybe, but on the other hand this makes pay walling far more trivial and accessible, so it'll likely be even more common. Google just wants that Nebula money.

derefr 4y ago
(FYI, Nebula is a bad analogy, because it exists not to do anything like courseware, but rather because a bunch of creators don't believe in YouTube as a long-lasting + stable revenue engine that won't betray them one day. There's nothing YouTube could offer to make the channels with Nebula extras switch back to posting only on YouTube. Other than, maybe, offering them a contract that basically makes YouTube into a B2B video-hosting platform where the content-creator is treated as a paying customer that deserves things like SLAs, and a human customer-success agent being in the signal chain between copyright strikes and account suspension. Which will seemingly never happen.)
- squeaky-clean 4y ago
  I think the GP commenter was referring to Nebula's recent new strategy "Nebula Classes" https://blog.nebula.app/nebula-classes/ https://blog.nebula.app/nebula-classes/
- nickzana 4y ago
  Nebula has also recently started selling skillshare/masterclass-esque classes in addition to the main video platform product. Many (maybe all???) are taught by existing Nebula creators. The classes are advertised on the Nebula homepage to subscribers, but require additional payment.

zwaps 4y ago

On your very last point, you seem to be wrong. These commercial platforms are neither accessible for everyone, nor do they offer the sort of reach as youtube. The choice then is paid content somewhere, or ads on youtube. By contrast, you now can chose between ads and no ads, both on youtube (and the former likely with algorithmic support). That's a different calculus that - as it seems to me - should imply more paid content than before, contradicting your statement.

derefr 4y ago
Let me phrase more precisely: as a result of this, there is not going to be any paywalled content created that otherwise would have been created as free ad-supported content. There is only going to be paywalled content created that otherwise would have been paywalled somewhere else, or not created at all. Media entrepreneurs set out to run a certain kind of business, revenue-engine-wise; and they choose their distribution channels by what will allow them to do the revenue model they have in mind. They don't compromise on their plans by choosing a channel with a larger reach but an entirely different revenue model. If they can't start a business with the revenue model they had in mind, then they just don't start that business. (They might start some entirely different business that does fit the revenue model of the channel; but that'd be a ground-up re-think, and probably have nothing in common with the original business.) A TV-series creative planner doesn't "compromise" when they can't get their TV pitch greenlit, by turning around and making a Hollywood movie or "direct-to-VHS" miniseries instead. Those are entirely different revenue models, and so require entirely different development strategies — different budgets, different teams, even different content! Same with educational content. You don't put the sorts of courseware videos you'd publish on Coursera, on YouTube as ad-supported recommendation-discovered videos. They don't belong there. People won't watch them, and you won't (currently) make any money. (For one thing — as another comment thread here attests — they aren't designed to be clickbait in the way that YouTube videos are, so they'll be ignored by the recommendation engine.) If you're already creating that type of content, you're currently creating it for some other platform where it works, and ignoring YouTube. Now YouTube will be one more "platform where it works." That doesn't change anything about whether you will have made this type of content. It only (maybe) changes how much money you'll make doing it, and so moves a few people over from "not creating educational content at all" to "creating courseware on YouTube." Just like happens incrementally every time one of the other dozens of such courseware sites pop up.

ekianjo 4y ago

Laughable. If you have some following on youtube you are not giving away your content you get ads and sponsorship money from it. They are already getting paid for it and the proof is that there are a growing amount of full time streamers or content producers.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago

Yes, but you as a consumer choose youtube, because you pretty much know that all the content there (from your home feed to search result, to related videos) is free. You start with a soldering tutorial, then click on the related video on how to solder SMD components, then a related video about how transistors work, then you find a nice documentary about the history of computing, about enigma, etc... so you click through videos, watch (or adblock) the ads, and learn a bunch of stuff. Now, most (or even all) of those related videos will be replaced by "pay to watch" videos, and i'm 99.9% sure, that the algorithms will prioritize paid video over free content, so all the free stuff will get buried, and you're left with shitty paid content of worse quality than those old, free videos.

rchaud 4y ago
Anybody who has used YT for learning purposes will have quickly realized the limits of "free". There are numerous channels with click bait titles that are little more than upsells to their paid courses. Quality courses (not referring to pre-recorded uni lectures) are not given away for free.
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  Maybe not full longform courses, but there was A LOT of great free content. Have to open a laptop to replace the hard drive? No service manual? Just google "XY-123 laptop disassembly", and you'll get a video. Now, a "XY-123 disassembly course", only $1.99.
  - tpoacher 4y ago
    on the plus side, let's hope this drives a significant enough portion of traffic to things like peertube, odysee, archive, self-hosted vids etc, to create the required network effect that will make them viable alternatives.