3 ms·

>Why you don't promote Bob? >Bob doesn't want to lead or be a manager, pretty sure at amazon or any "big tech" you get fired for this

fknorangesite 4y ago
Isn't this exactly what Staff+ roles are for? Being able to continue getting promoted but staying on an IC track.
faizshah 4y ago
At amazon the engineer track has leadership level roles: SDE I -> SDE II -> SDE III -> Principal Engineer (SDE IV) - you provide technical advisory and strategy across an organization -> Distinguished Engineer/Sr. Principal Engineer etc. (SDE V) Some choose to stay at SDE III level until the end of their career though since it offers the most freedom to code. You absolutely don’t get fired for this. This track exists at Oracle and Google. I am not familiar with the others. There’s a whole book on this: https://staffeng.com/book https://staffeng.com/book
- gfdsgfdsf 4y ago
  you get fired if you dont make it to IC3 or 4 (depending on company) eventually, and getting promoted to those levels does require leadership. sounds like bob just wants to work on bug fixes forever, there is no path to promotion there.
  - gloryjulio 4y ago
    There are different types ics. You absolute can stay as a type of programmer who concentrate on your own project with 0 people leadership. But you do need tech leadership. You are taking this kind of project because your are technically sufficient and that's your leadership. It doesn't mean it's a solo project. It just means you have the technical direction and you can let ppl manager to handle ppl side of things and you do almost 100% tech side of work. If you have 0 tech leadership and can only work on tasks assigned to you, you are not even ic4 worthy, that's absolutely ic3 ie ng level. Again this is more of a feature in big tech where this kind of projects are available
  - faizshah 4y ago
    For that kind of person even IC1 is not a good fit instead I usually recommend they will do better as a QA Engineer, Support Engineer etc. in FAANG or software engineer at a non-tech company (gov contractor, healthcare etc.). At least at FAANG companies IC is not just coding, it’s mentoring, providing technical leadership, writing design docs, oncall, etc. This is not leadership in the sense of a people manager it’s being able to provide constructive feedback to other teammates and positively influence your team’s codebase, architecture and product. Basically being able to lead technical decisions and technical strategy.
  - zoover2020 4y ago
    SDE2 is a terminal level at Amazon FYI
- fortylove 4y ago
  SDEIII at Amazon is 100% expected to lead other engineers at Amazon, including on defining and delivery complex cross org projects.
  - brnt 4y ago
    Can SDEIIIs have/hire supportive staff to deal with the managerial tasks the don't like? I once basically had a part time secretary and it was fantastic. A few hours a week could even be enough, it just frees up so much mental space. It boggles my mind this is not the norm.
gloryjulio 4y ago
Uhhh no...? On the contrary in big tech u can stay ic up to even director level. Manager level ics are very common. It's the opposite of what you described

fknorangesite 4y ago

Isn't this exactly what Staff+ roles are for? Being able to continue getting promoted but staying on an IC track.

faizshah 4y ago

At amazon the engineer track has leadership level roles: SDE I -> SDE II -> SDE III -> Principal Engineer (SDE IV) - you provide technical advisory and strategy across an organization -> Distinguished Engineer/Sr. Principal Engineer etc. (SDE V) Some choose to stay at SDE III level until the end of their career though since it offers the most freedom to code. You absolutely don’t get fired for this. This track exists at Oracle and Google. I am not familiar with the others. There’s a whole book on this: https://staffeng.com/book https://staffeng.com/book

gfdsgfdsf 4y ago
you get fired if you dont make it to IC3 or 4 (depending on company) eventually, and getting promoted to those levels does require leadership. sounds like bob just wants to work on bug fixes forever, there is no path to promotion there.
- gloryjulio 4y ago
  There are different types ics. You absolute can stay as a type of programmer who concentrate on your own project with 0 people leadership. But you do need tech leadership. You are taking this kind of project because your are technically sufficient and that's your leadership. It doesn't mean it's a solo project. It just means you have the technical direction and you can let ppl manager to handle ppl side of things and you do almost 100% tech side of work. If you have 0 tech leadership and can only work on tasks assigned to you, you are not even ic4 worthy, that's absolutely ic3 ie ng level. Again this is more of a feature in big tech where this kind of projects are available
- faizshah 4y ago
  For that kind of person even IC1 is not a good fit instead I usually recommend they will do better as a QA Engineer, Support Engineer etc. in FAANG or software engineer at a non-tech company (gov contractor, healthcare etc.). At least at FAANG companies IC is not just coding, it’s mentoring, providing technical leadership, writing design docs, oncall, etc. This is not leadership in the sense of a people manager it’s being able to provide constructive feedback to other teammates and positively influence your team’s codebase, architecture and product. Basically being able to lead technical decisions and technical strategy.
- zoover2020 4y ago
  SDE2 is a terminal level at Amazon FYI
fortylove 4y ago
SDEIII at Amazon is 100% expected to lead other engineers at Amazon, including on defining and delivery complex cross org projects.
- brnt 4y ago
  Can SDEIIIs have/hire supportive staff to deal with the managerial tasks the don't like? I once basically had a part time secretary and it was fantastic. A few hours a week could even be enough, it just frees up so much mental space. It boggles my mind this is not the norm.

gloryjulio 4y ago

Uhhh no...? On the contrary in big tech u can stay ic up to even director level. Manager level ics are very common. It's the opposite of what you described