4 ms·

I was looking at purchasing a newer, used Land Rover a few months back from a Land Rover dealership (one that had a sterling reputation prior to a buy out). The

I was looking at purchasing a newer, used Land Rover a few months back from a Land Rover dealership (one that had a sterling reputation prior to a buy out). The sheet of non-negotiable fees was rolled out, which raised the price nearly $5,000. The $1895 for "Executive Concierge Fee" blew my mind, consisting of your basic $150 detail and a slew of additional items that one could buy and apply from any Pep Boys for under $100. Funny enough, when I got up to walk away I was asked if I would buy the vehicle that day if some of those $5,000 of "non-negotiable" fees were removed. I contacted the sales manager to tell him why I'd never be back. They couldn't care less. It must mean that enough people fall for these scam fees or don't pay attention to the line items that they can afford to not care. It looks like that rule would address this, and I'm for it.

quickthrowman 4y ago
You were interested in buying a used Land Rover, of course they’re going to try and soak you. People that are good with money generally don’t buy used Land Rovers.
- andrew_ 4y ago
  I have a used Land Rover, got a great price on it, and it's been a very solid vehicle for my needs. Your assertion is dripping with bias, overly generalized, stereotyping, and is incredibly ignorant.
  - guardiangod 4y ago
    When I was an intern a fellow intern got a 4 year old Land Rover. In the next 6 months he had to - Check engine light on. Checked multiple time. Never went away - Replace engine gasket - replace rear diff - replace rear axle (did the dealership broke this?) The forth one happened while he was returning from the manufacturer dealership for the 3rd issue, about half way to our town (about 90km left) The worst thing was, he actually bought warranty from the car dealership, but they managed to weasel out every single item. Pardon me if I am on the grandparent's side.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      I've had worse happen on a corolla not much older than that. Sadly in my experience if you buy used, it usually means someone leaked the fuck out of the oil / coolant or grinded the fuck out of the gears, trashed the differential or other bullshit and they performed some trick to make it undiscoverable for the next 500 miles and during the mechanical check. I've bought probably half a dozen "gently used low mileage" "reliable brand" (toyota/honda) and something critical has shit the bricks within a few months every single time. As the ol saying goes, nobody sells a vehicle they're happy with (of course people do, but they're predisposed to pawn off a dumpster fire by concealing the smoke with bags of tricks). With the used market such a shit-show right now it's almost no point to buy used anyway -- I finally just bought a new Toyota because the used ones with 100k+ miles were selling a few grand under MSRP.
      - guardiangod 4y ago
        Yes but your Collora's rear diff(heh) doesn't cost $7500 to replace. Also, morality aside, the resale-ability of your Collora is on the exact opposite end versus a used Land Rover.
        dahfizz 4y ago
        This is something I don't think people understand about "luxury" cars. You may find a good deal on the sale price, but you're still paying the inflated repair bills. A $30k BMW is way more expensive than a $30k Toyota.
        ska 4y ago
        This is a lesson learned again and again buy 20-somethings who find a "great" deal on a luxury sedan the same age as they are....
        notch656a 4y ago
        Luxury make Lexus consistently ranks as one of the most reliable vehicle manufacturers. Are you sure luxury means you're going to end up with large repair bills?
- SilasX 4y ago
  You mean the brand specifically, or used cars at all? I'd always heard (and acted on) the advice that the sweet spot when buying a car is a few years in, when you're no longer paying the shiny-and-new premium but it's otherwise reliable -- i.e. someone else has eaten the bulk of the depreciation. They generally segment out the bad-with-money crowd by the ridiculous financing/lease surcharges, not new vs used, right? (If anything, I'd say the bad-with-money people will unnecessarily prefer new over used.)
  - ska 4y ago
    The sweet spot is a few years in, but also not a luxury badge. Reliability and service cost is a significant factor too. Landrover is a double whammy here, as it is a luxury badge (which typically puts you firmly in the overpriced parts and labor category) and has middling-to-poor reliability...
  - robocat 4y ago
    Reliable information on future maintenance costs is hard to find, but https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/the-most-and-least-expensive-cars-to-maintain-by-maddy-martin https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/the-most-and-least-expe... is a 2016 article which might help. Per model costs can only be reliably measured for old models. New models are usually difficult to predict. I think more generally product brands are becoming harder to use as predictors of good reliability. Disclaimer: I now avoid anything except 2nd hand Toyota - but New Zealand car market is weird due to 2nd hand imports from Japan
  - quickthrowman 4y ago
    A used Toyota or Honda was typically a smart purchase before the recent used car shortage, and still sometimes a good deal even during the last two years. Used luxury cars in general aren’t a great deal, since you typically pay higher maintenance costs on a luxury car. They’re lower volume cars, so there are fewer parts made, leading to more expensive parts. Replacing the airbag suspension compressor in a Land Rover costs $5k+, each of the (four) suspension airbag costs a few thousand dollars to replace and they usually need replacing after 100k miles. Financing rates are how people who are bad with money with bad credit get fleeced, 17% 7 year loans for instance. There are people that are bad with money but have good credit, you fleece them by flattering their ego with an $1895 ‘executive concierge service’.
- LorenPechtel 4y ago
  Luxury car prices have luxury prices on maintenance & repairs. Used luxury cars are not a good deal.
  - dghlsakjg 4y ago
    Japanese luxury cars tend to be the exception. My Lexus tends to be cheaper to run than my Nissan. But it is also old enough that it is mostly interchangeable with a Camry for parts
dghlsakjg 4y ago
My guess is that they don't expect you back since no one is masochist enough to buy a Land Rover twice...
JeremyNT 4y ago
Similar story here attempting to buy new. I went to a Toyota dealership that had the model I wanted to buy in stock. I looked up the price online first and it all looked good. Got in there and they tacked on a bunch of junk that wasn't listed. I asked them if they could do anything to get the price back to the online price, and they said they couldn't. They did suggest that they had a used car on the lot - which came in at the same price the new one did on the website, all told. I walked away. Never heard back. I assume that somebody probably came in the same week and gladly opened up the wallet. The experience in general suggested to me that I should hold onto my 15 y.o. car as long as it still rolls, rather than trying to buy a new one right now. Hopefully it outlasts this insanity.
xenadu02 4y ago
Most car dealers don't care about establishing a long-term relationship so their level of "give a shit" varies dramatically with the state of the market. I bought a new car at a low point of the 200x financial crisis in the worst month for new car sales (population adjusted) in decades. The sales manager tried the "go to another room to run numbers and come back" strategy but while he was gone the sales guy told me to stand firm and they'd meet my price. I bought a really hot vehicle for $7k off MSRP, something completely impossible 6-12 months prior to that - the best you could hope for at that time was $2k over MSRP. The discount was so good I wasn't even underwater on the loan when I drove it off the lot. By contrast you see what dealers are doing right now with low used and new car inventory. The best strategy is not to be in a position where you must get a vehicle. If you can afford to downsize (eg 2 -> 1) then do that while used car prices are high. If you can avoid buying a new vehicle do so. Inventory will recover and dealers will eventually get desperate to make sales again.
LorenPechtel 4y ago
How we handled this for the last couple of purchases was to ignore all that stuff--we made it clear from the start we were asking for the out-the-door price. Whatever it's labeled on the page is irrelevant, all that counts is the final number.

quickthrowman 4y ago

You were interested in buying a used Land Rover, of course they’re going to try and soak you. People that are good with money generally don’t buy used Land Rovers.

andrew_ 4y ago
I have a used Land Rover, got a great price on it, and it's been a very solid vehicle for my needs. Your assertion is dripping with bias, overly generalized, stereotyping, and is incredibly ignorant.
- guardiangod 4y ago
  When I was an intern a fellow intern got a 4 year old Land Rover. In the next 6 months he had to - Check engine light on. Checked multiple time. Never went away - Replace engine gasket - replace rear diff - replace rear axle (did the dealership broke this?) The forth one happened while he was returning from the manufacturer dealership for the 3rd issue, about half way to our town (about 90km left) The worst thing was, he actually bought warranty from the car dealership, but they managed to weasel out every single item. Pardon me if I am on the grandparent's side.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    I've had worse happen on a corolla not much older than that. Sadly in my experience if you buy used, it usually means someone leaked the fuck out of the oil / coolant or grinded the fuck out of the gears, trashed the differential or other bullshit and they performed some trick to make it undiscoverable for the next 500 miles and during the mechanical check. I've bought probably half a dozen "gently used low mileage" "reliable brand" (toyota/honda) and something critical has shit the bricks within a few months every single time. As the ol saying goes, nobody sells a vehicle they're happy with (of course people do, but they're predisposed to pawn off a dumpster fire by concealing the smoke with bags of tricks). With the used market such a shit-show right now it's almost no point to buy used anyway -- I finally just bought a new Toyota because the used ones with 100k+ miles were selling a few grand under MSRP.
    - guardiangod 4y ago
      Yes but your Collora's rear diff(heh) doesn't cost $7500 to replace. Also, morality aside, the resale-ability of your Collora is on the exact opposite end versus a used Land Rover.
      - dahfizz 4y ago
        This is something I don't think people understand about "luxury" cars. You may find a good deal on the sale price, but you're still paying the inflated repair bills. A $30k BMW is way more expensive than a $30k Toyota.
        ska 4y ago
        This is a lesson learned again and again buy 20-somethings who find a "great" deal on a luxury sedan the same age as they are....
        notch656a 4y ago
        Luxury make Lexus consistently ranks as one of the most reliable vehicle manufacturers. Are you sure luxury means you're going to end up with large repair bills?
SilasX 4y ago
You mean the brand specifically, or used cars at all? I'd always heard (and acted on) the advice that the sweet spot when buying a car is a few years in, when you're no longer paying the shiny-and-new premium but it's otherwise reliable -- i.e. someone else has eaten the bulk of the depreciation. They generally segment out the bad-with-money crowd by the ridiculous financing/lease surcharges, not new vs used, right? (If anything, I'd say the bad-with-money people will unnecessarily prefer new over used.)
- ska 4y ago
  The sweet spot is a few years in, but also not a luxury badge. Reliability and service cost is a significant factor too. Landrover is a double whammy here, as it is a luxury badge (which typically puts you firmly in the overpriced parts and labor category) and has middling-to-poor reliability...
- robocat 4y ago
  Reliable information on future maintenance costs is hard to find, but https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/the-most-and-least-expensive-cars-to-maintain-by-maddy-martin https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/the-most-and-least-expe... is a 2016 article which might help. Per model costs can only be reliably measured for old models. New models are usually difficult to predict. I think more generally product brands are becoming harder to use as predictors of good reliability. Disclaimer: I now avoid anything except 2nd hand Toyota - but New Zealand car market is weird due to 2nd hand imports from Japan
- quickthrowman 4y ago
  A used Toyota or Honda was typically a smart purchase before the recent used car shortage, and still sometimes a good deal even during the last two years. Used luxury cars in general aren’t a great deal, since you typically pay higher maintenance costs on a luxury car. They’re lower volume cars, so there are fewer parts made, leading to more expensive parts. Replacing the airbag suspension compressor in a Land Rover costs $5k+, each of the (four) suspension airbag costs a few thousand dollars to replace and they usually need replacing after 100k miles. Financing rates are how people who are bad with money with bad credit get fleeced, 17% 7 year loans for instance. There are people that are bad with money but have good credit, you fleece them by flattering their ego with an $1895 ‘executive concierge service’.
LorenPechtel 4y ago
Luxury car prices have luxury prices on maintenance & repairs. Used luxury cars are not a good deal.
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  Japanese luxury cars tend to be the exception. My Lexus tends to be cheaper to run than my Nissan. But it is also old enough that it is mostly interchangeable with a Camry for parts

dghlsakjg 4y ago

My guess is that they don't expect you back since no one is masochist enough to buy a Land Rover twice...

JeremyNT 4y ago

Similar story here attempting to buy new. I went to a Toyota dealership that had the model I wanted to buy in stock. I looked up the price online first and it all looked good. Got in there and they tacked on a bunch of junk that wasn't listed. I asked them if they could do anything to get the price back to the online price, and they said they couldn't. They did suggest that they had a used car on the lot - which came in at the same price the new one did on the website, all told. I walked away. Never heard back. I assume that somebody probably came in the same week and gladly opened up the wallet. The experience in general suggested to me that I should hold onto my 15 y.o. car as long as it still rolls, rather than trying to buy a new one right now. Hopefully it outlasts this insanity.

xenadu02 4y ago

Most car dealers don't care about establishing a long-term relationship so their level of "give a shit" varies dramatically with the state of the market. I bought a new car at a low point of the 200x financial crisis in the worst month for new car sales (population adjusted) in decades. The sales manager tried the "go to another room to run numbers and come back" strategy but while he was gone the sales guy told me to stand firm and they'd meet my price. I bought a really hot vehicle for $7k off MSRP, something completely impossible 6-12 months prior to that - the best you could hope for at that time was $2k over MSRP. The discount was so good I wasn't even underwater on the loan when I drove it off the lot. By contrast you see what dealers are doing right now with low used and new car inventory. The best strategy is not to be in a position where you must get a vehicle. If you can afford to downsize (eg 2 -> 1) then do that while used car prices are high. If you can avoid buying a new vehicle do so. Inventory will recover and dealers will eventually get desperate to make sales again.

LorenPechtel 4y ago

How we handled this for the last couple of purchases was to ignore all that stuff--we made it clear from the start we were asking for the out-the-door price. Whatever it's labeled on the page is irrelevant, all that counts is the final number.