4 ms·

There are two basic approaches to work. You can be a minion or a professional. If you're a minion, then you just build the volcano headquarters and the atomic

There are two basic approaches to work. You can be a minion or a professional. If you're a minion, then you just build the volcano headquarters and the atomic missiles because, hey, it's your job. They don't pay you to think. Your job is to make your boss look good. You give 110% and think outside the box only when it's firmly inside the box of the primate dominance hierarchy you are embedded in. Professionals, though, explicitly recognize they are part of a society. They owe something to the client/employer, but also to the public and the profession. For example, read through the preamble here: https://ethics.acm.org/code-of-ethics/software-engineering-code/ https://ethics.acm.org/code-of-ethics/software-engineering-c... I see myself as a professional. I sell my labor, not my ethics. So what I would have lost by selling my ability to speak out about a problem? My integrity. My independence. My freedom. $40k is a lot of money, but it wasn't worth 40 years of shutting up about anything Twitter would want me to keep quiet about.

orzig 4y ago
You are a legit hero. Our society focuses exclusively on contributions that involve some dramatic moment, and doesn’t recognize those who show up for what’s right every day. Thank you, seriously.
ethbr0 4y ago
Kudos to you, and glad you took the time to speak about your thoughts here. It's good for people to have exposure to later career challenges... and especially options they might not consider.
twistedfred87 4y ago
This is so incredibly refreshing to see. I can't express just how much I appreciate and respect this.
mellavora 4y ago
Hero points. Thanks also for explicitly spelling out what it means to be a professional. (duty to profession and society as well as employer, written source, summary "sell my labor not my ethics")
criddell 4y ago
I'm always ripping on people using the title Engineer when talking about software development. Your comment is a perfect example of how I would expect an Engineer to think about their work. I love it.
- imafish 4y ago
  > I'm always ripping on people using the title Engineer when talking about software development. Why?
  - wpietri 4y ago
    In many places, engineers are registered professionals along the lines of doctors or lawyers. As Wikipedia says: > The foundational qualifications of an engineer typically include a four-year bachelor's degree in an engineering discipline, or in some jurisdictions, a master's degree in an engineering discipline plus four to six years of peer-reviewed professional practice (culminating in a project report or thesis) and passage of engineering board examinations. A professional Engineer is typically, is a person registered under an Engineering Council which is widely accepted. Personally, I mostly refer to myself as a developer, not an engineer. Funnily, my great-grandfather came to America to work as an "engineer" in the Minnesota mines back when the standards for "engineer" were much looser. I imagine we'll have a similar process in the coming decades, where some sorts of software engineer will be licensed, and that you won't be able to call yourself by that term without getting into trouble.
    - imafish 4y ago
      So having a B/M.Sc. in Software Engineering is not enough to qualify for the title of Software Engineer? :D
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - criddell 4y ago
        The degree means something (assuming the school is accredited) but the title doesn't. Anybody can call themselves a Software Engineer. For a very brief moment in time, some jurisdictions fought against the use of the title. In Canada Engineer is a protected title (like CPA) and they tried to hold Software Engineer to the same professional standards as other engineers (civil engineer, mechanical engineer, chemical engineer, etc...). This meant having a degree, working under a Professional Engineer for some period of time, then passing an exam demonstrating expertise and high ethical standards. I don't remember all the details, but I think Microsoft fought this and today Software Engineer doesn't imply anything in Canada. If Software Engineer were a real profession, then you could be sued for malpractice and lose your ability to work in the field. It would also mean you have real power to push back against employers asking you to do illegal or unethical things. You would have personal liability and wouldn't be able to claim you were just following orders. https://engineerscanada.ca/become-an-engineer/use-of-professional-title-and-designations https://engineerscanada.ca/become-an-engineer/use-of-profess...
matheusmoreira 4y ago
I have huge respect for you. 40k USD is a ton of money where I live due to the exchange rate.
techdragon 4y ago
This is the same sort of worldview regarding professional ethics that led me to make my first discussion with any client free. It’s unethical (and bad business) to ask customers to pay my rates in order to explain their problems to me, it would be taking advantage of them to spend an hour or two, or even three, work out they’re either not a customer I want, or that I haven’t got the experience with the technology they are using, or that yes I could help them but their budget wouldn’t cover the time needed at the rate I charge… etc. I borrowed this from the way quite a few lawyers work. Its served me well and garnered quite a bit of good will over the years, but at the end of the day I do it primarily because I sleep better knowing I’m not ripping people off and taking advantage of them.
- wpietri 4y ago
  For sure! I have no tattoos and probably never will. But "value for value" has such meaning for me that it would sure be a candidate.
lz400 4y ago
I found this comment inspiring and I want to thank you for writing it. This is the work ethic I want to have and keep.
raverbashing 4y ago
Thanks for this very thorough (and patient) answer. I'm also happy to be a professional as well. Ethics is not just a box you tick

orzig 4y ago

You are a legit hero. Our society focuses exclusively on contributions that involve some dramatic moment, and doesn’t recognize those who show up for what’s right every day. Thank you, seriously.

ethbr0 4y ago

Kudos to you, and glad you took the time to speak about your thoughts here. It's good for people to have exposure to later career challenges... and especially options they might not consider.

twistedfred87 4y ago

This is so incredibly refreshing to see. I can't express just how much I appreciate and respect this.

mellavora 4y ago

Hero points. Thanks also for explicitly spelling out what it means to be a professional. (duty to profession and society as well as employer, written source, summary "sell my labor not my ethics")

criddell 4y ago

I'm always ripping on people using the title Engineer when talking about software development. Your comment is a perfect example of how I would expect an Engineer to think about their work. I love it.

imafish 4y ago
> I'm always ripping on people using the title Engineer when talking about software development. Why?
- wpietri 4y ago
  In many places, engineers are registered professionals along the lines of doctors or lawyers. As Wikipedia says: > The foundational qualifications of an engineer typically include a four-year bachelor's degree in an engineering discipline, or in some jurisdictions, a master's degree in an engineering discipline plus four to six years of peer-reviewed professional practice (culminating in a project report or thesis) and passage of engineering board examinations. A professional Engineer is typically, is a person registered under an Engineering Council which is widely accepted. Personally, I mostly refer to myself as a developer, not an engineer. Funnily, my great-grandfather came to America to work as an "engineer" in the Minnesota mines back when the standards for "engineer" were much looser. I imagine we'll have a similar process in the coming decades, where some sorts of software engineer will be licensed, and that you won't be able to call yourself by that term without getting into trouble.
  - imafish 4y ago
    So having a B/M.Sc. in Software Engineering is not enough to qualify for the title of Software Engineer? :D
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - criddell 4y ago
      The degree means something (assuming the school is accredited) but the title doesn't. Anybody can call themselves a Software Engineer. For a very brief moment in time, some jurisdictions fought against the use of the title. In Canada Engineer is a protected title (like CPA) and they tried to hold Software Engineer to the same professional standards as other engineers (civil engineer, mechanical engineer, chemical engineer, etc...). This meant having a degree, working under a Professional Engineer for some period of time, then passing an exam demonstrating expertise and high ethical standards. I don't remember all the details, but I think Microsoft fought this and today Software Engineer doesn't imply anything in Canada. If Software Engineer were a real profession, then you could be sued for malpractice and lose your ability to work in the field. It would also mean you have real power to push back against employers asking you to do illegal or unethical things. You would have personal liability and wouldn't be able to claim you were just following orders. https://engineerscanada.ca/become-an-engineer/use-of-professional-title-and-designations https://engineerscanada.ca/become-an-engineer/use-of-profess...

matheusmoreira 4y ago

I have huge respect for you. 40k USD is a ton of money where I live due to the exchange rate.

techdragon 4y ago

This is the same sort of worldview regarding professional ethics that led me to make my first discussion with any client free. It’s unethical (and bad business) to ask customers to pay my rates in order to explain their problems to me, it would be taking advantage of them to spend an hour or two, or even three, work out they’re either not a customer I want, or that I haven’t got the experience with the technology they are using, or that yes I could help them but their budget wouldn’t cover the time needed at the rate I charge… etc. I borrowed this from the way quite a few lawyers work. Its served me well and garnered quite a bit of good will over the years, but at the end of the day I do it primarily because I sleep better knowing I’m not ripping people off and taking advantage of them.

wpietri 4y ago
For sure! I have no tattoos and probably never will. But "value for value" has such meaning for me that it would sure be a candidate.

lz400 4y ago

I found this comment inspiring and I want to thank you for writing it. This is the work ethic I want to have and keep.

raverbashing 4y ago

Thanks for this very thorough (and patient) answer. I'm also happy to be a professional as well. Ethics is not just a box you tick