4 ms·

The government should not be able to take things without a trial in a court of law.

redthrowaway 15y ago
That's the essence of it, right there. This is especially troubling, for those of us who aren't American, because the US is claiming ownership over all .com, .net, and .org TLDs, and thus considers it just fine to seize the domains of foreign sites. So as a Canadian, with no say whatsoever as to what laws are passed in the US, I am nonetheless bound by them and can have my business property seized if a foreign government doesn't like what I do, with absolutely no ability to defend myself in court or seek redress for wrongful seizure. That's horseshit.
- billpatrianakos 15y ago
  Agreed. I don't see how anyone can argue with that. You're right. But doesn't it bother anyone that torrent sites that are pretty well known for providing access to pirated content (whether a link constitutes infringement is not the issue here) are hiding behind freedom? I feel like they shouldn't be on the front lines of this. They're going to hurt and make us look bad more than they help. Maybe if some well known people or companies took the lead on this it would make the whole opposition look better and give us more credibility. TorrentFreak is exactly the kind of site that is the poster child they use to claim these measures are necessary. They should hang back and be quiet, right? If I'm wrong I'd like to know. I read so much about this and I thought my position was solid but now I'm wondering.
  - redthrowaway 15y ago
    TorrentFreak is a news site, much like Ars Technica or zdnet. Yes, they focus on torrents, but they themselves can in no way be claimed to be offering infringing content (even if you believe a .torrent is covered by copyright). Yes, I agree with you that the general public may be dismissive of what they say due to their championing of a technology largely used for copyright infringement. It certainly is a PR issue. That said, TorrentFreak is not really in the business of trying to convert skeptics. They're a site that specializes in preaching to the choir, much as boingboing does. There's a legitimate place for sites like that. They get the knowledgeable masses fired up about opposing bad legislation and illegal government seizures, which is never a bad thing. As for torrent sites in general 'providing access' to pirated content, that's a pretty fuzzy area. Google itself offers a torrent search [1]. Are not they, too, 'providing access'? Where do you draw the line? Yes, sites like thepiratebay are well-known for their brazen encouragement of piracy. That does not, however, mean that they are guilty of copyright infringement. My concern with making simple links illegal is that it breaks the Internet. It imposes upon site maintainers the responsibility to ensure that no links on their site direct people to content that the US Government deems unlawful, which is crap. When we accept facilitation of a crime as a crime unto itself, we are conferring upon the authorities the trust that "facilitation" will not be overly broadly interpreted. I don't think we can do that, given the USG's behavior. Thus, I resist any attempt by them to claim more power to decide what content is and is not acceptable. [1] http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=003849996876419856805:erhhdbygrma http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=003849996876419856805:erhh...
- toyg 15y ago
  Maybe it's time people start taking local TLD seriously then, redirecting from .com/.net/.org to safer places. They all sound so '90s anyway.
  - redthrowaway 15y ago
    Local TLDs just kick the can down the road, as now you're beholden to the whims of some other government. The only one I trust at this point is .is.
GHFigs 15y ago
How do you feel about arrests?
- TruthElixirX 15y ago
  Don't much like those either. They use arrests as a way to harass innocent people, hence the phrase, "You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride."
- nate_meurer 15y ago
  How do you feel about oranges? An arrest is chiefly an investigative tool, accompanied with (ideally) a legal proceeding that presumes innocence. Civil forfeiture is nothing like that.

That's the essence of it, right there. This is especially troubling, for those of us who aren't American, because the US is claiming ownership over all .com, .net, and .org TLDs, and thus considers it just fine to seize the domains of foreign sites. So as a Canadian, with no say whatsoever as to what laws are passed in the US, I am nonetheless bound by them and can have my business property seized if a foreign government doesn't like what I do, with absolutely no ability to defend myself in court or seek redress for wrongful seizure. That's horseshit.

billpatrianakos 15y ago
Agreed. I don't see how anyone can argue with that. You're right. But doesn't it bother anyone that torrent sites that are pretty well known for providing access to pirated content (whether a link constitutes infringement is not the issue here) are hiding behind freedom? I feel like they shouldn't be on the front lines of this. They're going to hurt and make us look bad more than they help. Maybe if some well known people or companies took the lead on this it would make the whole opposition look better and give us more credibility. TorrentFreak is exactly the kind of site that is the poster child they use to claim these measures are necessary. They should hang back and be quiet, right? If I'm wrong I'd like to know. I read so much about this and I thought my position was solid but now I'm wondering.
- redthrowaway 15y ago
  TorrentFreak is a news site, much like Ars Technica or zdnet. Yes, they focus on torrents, but they themselves can in no way be claimed to be offering infringing content (even if you believe a .torrent is covered by copyright). Yes, I agree with you that the general public may be dismissive of what they say due to their championing of a technology largely used for copyright infringement. It certainly is a PR issue. That said, TorrentFreak is not really in the business of trying to convert skeptics. They're a site that specializes in preaching to the choir, much as boingboing does. There's a legitimate place for sites like that. They get the knowledgeable masses fired up about opposing bad legislation and illegal government seizures, which is never a bad thing. As for torrent sites in general 'providing access' to pirated content, that's a pretty fuzzy area. Google itself offers a torrent search [1]. Are not they, too, 'providing access'? Where do you draw the line? Yes, sites like thepiratebay are well-known for their brazen encouragement of piracy. That does not, however, mean that they are guilty of copyright infringement. My concern with making simple links illegal is that it breaks the Internet. It imposes upon site maintainers the responsibility to ensure that no links on their site direct people to content that the US Government deems unlawful, which is crap. When we accept facilitation of a crime as a crime unto itself, we are conferring upon the authorities the trust that "facilitation" will not be overly broadly interpreted. I don't think we can do that, given the USG's behavior. Thus, I resist any attempt by them to claim more power to decide what content is and is not acceptable. [1] http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=003849996876419856805:erhhdbygrma http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=003849996876419856805:erhh...
toyg 15y ago
Maybe it's time people start taking local TLD seriously then, redirecting from .com/.net/.org to safer places. They all sound so '90s anyway.
- redthrowaway 15y ago
  Local TLDs just kick the can down the road, as now you're beholden to the whims of some other government. The only one I trust at this point is .is.

GHFigs 15y ago

How do you feel about arrests?

TruthElixirX 15y ago
Don't much like those either. They use arrests as a way to harass innocent people, hence the phrase, "You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride."
nate_meurer 15y ago
How do you feel about oranges? An arrest is chiefly an investigative tool, accompanied with (ideally) a legal proceeding that presumes innocence. Civil forfeiture is nothing like that.