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> Also, why not get rid of farm subsidies Most of farm subsidies that people talk about goes towards food stamp-type programs. Not wanting the poor to starve m

> Also, why not get rid of farm subsidies Most of farm subsidies that people talk about goes towards food stamp-type programs. Not wanting the poor to starve may be a good reason. And when people talk about product subsidies (like corn subsidies) they are referring to the insurance system operated by the government. Due to the nature of what is being insured (i.e. something that is likely to affect most policy holders when disaster strikes), it is difficult for private business to provide the necessary insurance. Traditional insurance products rely on only a few policy holders needing insurance each year. When mass disaster strikes, such as a hurricane destroying homes across a wide area, the government typically does step in to cover the difference. Since this is the norm for agriculture, the government stays at the ready. Farmers still have to maintain a paid policy to be participants in the insurance system. Perhaps insurance should be abandoned, but it's generally considered a social good.

legitster 4y ago
Not necessarily true. There are a few other notable sets of subsidies: - Irrigation water in the US is artificially cheap for farmers - The US offers several Export Credit Guarantee programs (the WTO has specifically found to be illegal internationally): https://www.fas.usda.gov/programs/export-credit-guarantee-program-gsm-102 https://www.fas.usda.gov/programs/export-credit-guarantee-pr... - There are amply funded Conservation programs - which can often involve payments to do nothing with certain pieces of land: https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/conservation-programs/ https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/conservation-... - And bigger than anything, over half of all direct payments to farms are from Commodity programs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_programs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_programs https://farm.ewg.org/region.php https://farm.ewg.org/region.php
- randomdata 4y ago
  > over half of all direct payments to farms are from Commodity programs As you can see in your second link, the direct payments ended under Obama. All of the remaining programs for commodity producers are insurance-based. Perhaps what you are trying to say is that there are time travellers coming to us from the past to tell us about how things used to be (from our perspective)? But why would anyone listen to them?
  - legitster 4y ago
    The site still reports commodity payments for the last several years - I don't know where you are getting that from: https://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=00000&progcode=total&yr=2019 https://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=00000&progcode=total&yr... And it does seem the government continues to give direct payments to farmers - even though it is under the guise of the insurance program: https://www.fsa.usda.gov/news-room/news-releases/2021/usda-provides-1-8-billion-to-offset-market-fluctuations https://www.fsa.usda.gov/news-room/news-releases/2021/usda-p... I would also not call the price protection programs an insurance program. Being able to sell at a certain price seems like a pretty strong and direct subsidy. And the export credit, which is not overseen by the USDA at all, continues.
    - randomdata 4y ago
      > The site still reports commodity payments for the last several years And when you look the breakdown you'll see when direct payments ended. Insurance is going to pay out, yes. That's what insurance is for... > I would also not call the price protection programs an insurance program. I would. It is setup as an insurance system. Price/income insurance isn't uncommon, even outside of agriculture. If you work as an employee, you are afforded access to similar insurance.
- matt_attack 4y ago
  Irrigation water is only cheap from a demand perspective. There is no subsidy in that case, simply the lack of a free market and poor resource allocation.

legitster 4y ago

Not necessarily true. There are a few other notable sets of subsidies: - Irrigation water in the US is artificially cheap for farmers - The US offers several Export Credit Guarantee programs (the WTO has specifically found to be illegal internationally): https://www.fas.usda.gov/programs/export-credit-guarantee-program-gsm-102 https://www.fas.usda.gov/programs/export-credit-guarantee-pr... - There are amply funded Conservation programs - which can often involve payments to do nothing with certain pieces of land: https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/conservation-programs/ https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/conservation-... - And bigger than anything, over half of all direct payments to farms are from Commodity programs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_programs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_programs https://farm.ewg.org/region.php https://farm.ewg.org/region.php

randomdata 4y ago
> over half of all direct payments to farms are from Commodity programs As you can see in your second link, the direct payments ended under Obama. All of the remaining programs for commodity producers are insurance-based. Perhaps what you are trying to say is that there are time travellers coming to us from the past to tell us about how things used to be (from our perspective)? But why would anyone listen to them?
- legitster 4y ago
  The site still reports commodity payments for the last several years - I don't know where you are getting that from: https://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=00000&progcode=total&yr=2019 https://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=00000&progcode=total&yr... And it does seem the government continues to give direct payments to farmers - even though it is under the guise of the insurance program: https://www.fsa.usda.gov/news-room/news-releases/2021/usda-provides-1-8-billion-to-offset-market-fluctuations https://www.fsa.usda.gov/news-room/news-releases/2021/usda-p... I would also not call the price protection programs an insurance program. Being able to sell at a certain price seems like a pretty strong and direct subsidy. And the export credit, which is not overseen by the USDA at all, continues.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    > The site still reports commodity payments for the last several years And when you look the breakdown you'll see when direct payments ended. Insurance is going to pay out, yes. That's what insurance is for... > I would also not call the price protection programs an insurance program. I would. It is setup as an insurance system. Price/income insurance isn't uncommon, even outside of agriculture. If you work as an employee, you are afforded access to similar insurance.
matt_attack 4y ago
Irrigation water is only cheap from a demand perspective. There is no subsidy in that case, simply the lack of a free market and poor resource allocation.