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The government could curb any behavior it wants with taxes and removing subsidies. Raise the price on gas, and the market will respond with EVs. If the tax on c

The government could curb any behavior it wants with taxes and removing subsidies. Raise the price on gas, and the market will respond with EVs. If the tax on cigarettes were $50 then smoking would likely end immediately; I suppose a black market could emerge though.

padobson 4y ago
>I guarantee a black market would emerge immediately FTFY But seriously, this experiment is already playing out in NYC[0]. Every marginal % you tax a product, you push some number of consumers into the black market. At some point, the black market reaches a critical mass where the thing you're taxing might as well be banned. [0]https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=new+york+city+black+market+cigarettes https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=new+yor...
- workingon 4y ago
  At some point, the black market reaches a critical mass where the thing you're taxing might as well be banned. >>> This doesn't make sense, because you're still getting taxes on the white market merch. Even if black market merch dominates, its different from prohibition where you get no taxes.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    At some point the cost of policing it overtakes the revenues from white merch.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Raise the price on gas, and the market will respond with EVs EVs are supply constrained. Raising gas prices when the average EV is months from delivery and tens of thousands of dollars more expensive than ICE comparables is just mean.
- cheaprentalyeti 4y ago
  If we start by liquidating Google and Microsoft the government will have plenty of money to buy EV's for the proletariat.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > the government will have plenty of money to buy EV's for the proletariat That increases demand. The problem isn’t demand. People are putting down deposits and paying over sticker price. The problem is supply. The government buying EVs for everyone does nothing to solve that problem.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  Easily solved. Add a $10/litre tax to all petroleum products that enter the country. Give everyone $2000 a month. People who continue current average driving habits and buy their normal products are unharmed. People who car pool or switch to a lighter vehicle or other transport method or purchas low local transport cost products win.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    You’d also have to adjust for industrial transport and agriculture. Otherwise, food prices will go up. (But yes, I broadly agree. I’ve advocated for something similar for water.)
    - Schroedingersat 4y ago
      Why adjust for a feature? If it makes less emissions heavy food more competitive and the total is distributed evenly by population, then you're only worse off if your food emits more than average from imported fuel sources (and even then you're not unless exceptions are made because of imports and exports -- which could result in an adjustment being needed for trade balance and exporting emissions reasons).
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
> I suppose a black market could emerge though. This is, in fact, what is happening; in NL they're slowly but sharply increasing taxes on tobacco products. The other day they found and dismantled an "illegal" cigarrete manufacturing plant. Only illegal because it was sold untaxed, smoking itself isn't illegal yet. Mind you, taxing and the other measures are working; the amount of people smoking has been reduced by a lot in the past few decades. But there will always be a market for tobacco and tobacco products.

padobson 4y ago

>I guarantee a black market would emerge immediately FTFY But seriously, this experiment is already playing out in NYC[0]. Every marginal % you tax a product, you push some number of consumers into the black market. At some point, the black market reaches a critical mass where the thing you're taxing might as well be banned. [0]https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=new+york+city+black+market+cigarettes https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=new+yor...

workingon 4y ago
At some point, the black market reaches a critical mass where the thing you're taxing might as well be banned. >>> This doesn't make sense, because you're still getting taxes on the white market merch. Even if black market merch dominates, its different from prohibition where you get no taxes.
- bombcar 4y ago
  At some point the cost of policing it overtakes the revenues from white merch.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> Raise the price on gas, and the market will respond with EVs EVs are supply constrained. Raising gas prices when the average EV is months from delivery and tens of thousands of dollars more expensive than ICE comparables is just mean.

cheaprentalyeti 4y ago
If we start by liquidating Google and Microsoft the government will have plenty of money to buy EV's for the proletariat.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > the government will have plenty of money to buy EV's for the proletariat That increases demand. The problem isn’t demand. People are putting down deposits and paying over sticker price. The problem is supply. The government buying EVs for everyone does nothing to solve that problem.
Schroedingersat 4y ago
Easily solved. Add a $10/litre tax to all petroleum products that enter the country. Give everyone $2000 a month. People who continue current average driving habits and buy their normal products are unharmed. People who car pool or switch to a lighter vehicle or other transport method or purchas low local transport cost products win.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  You’d also have to adjust for industrial transport and agriculture. Otherwise, food prices will go up. (But yes, I broadly agree. I’ve advocated for something similar for water.)
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    Why adjust for a feature? If it makes less emissions heavy food more competitive and the total is distributed evenly by population, then you're only worse off if your food emits more than average from imported fuel sources (and even then you're not unless exceptions are made because of imports and exports -- which could result in an adjustment being needed for trade balance and exporting emissions reasons).

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

> I suppose a black market could emerge though. This is, in fact, what is happening; in NL they're slowly but sharply increasing taxes on tobacco products. The other day they found and dismantled an "illegal" cigarrete manufacturing plant. Only illegal because it was sold untaxed, smoking itself isn't illegal yet. Mind you, taxing and the other measures are working; the amount of people smoking has been reduced by a lot in the past few decades. But there will always be a market for tobacco and tobacco products.