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This is generally correct; Campbell's not a horrible influence or anything like that, but after it all, it's hard to suggest that he's ever said anything much m

by jrm4 4y ago

This is generally correct; Campbell's not a horrible influence or anything like that, but after it all, it's hard to suggest that he's ever said anything much more than "Good stories involve a protagonist who goes through a tough struggle." That's the only real unifying theme.

pessimizer 4y ago
It really is generic Jungian horseshit. I find it so bad (and with such airs of pseudo-profundity) that it actually complicated my feelings about Bill Moyers, about whom I like everything else. edit: I don't even know how you discuss it for more than five minutes. Whenever discussion about this Hero's Journey gets specific, it gets obviously wrong. The lane the discussion stays in is endless cherry-picking of particular events from stories and calling them examples. I get that you can tell a story about a hero taking a journey, what I want to know is why you think that most stories are about a hero taking a journey, or why that's more important than any other story, like a woman trying to start a stationary shop. And don't tell me that the woman is the hero, and the stationary shop is the journey.
- slowmovintarget 4y ago
  Because most stories, if they are at all compelling, are about change. As for models, The Story Circle is easier to use, but these are still models of stories. It's like arguing that "I've never seen purple weather" when discussing how weather models are shown on newscasts. That would be missing the point.
- sshine 4y ago
  > don't tell me that the woman is the hero, and the stationary shop is the journey. Why not? Journeys can be of the mind. That is, after all, what reading is. A classic Danish story is the Brothers Lionheart about two brothers, one of which has cancer and the other trying to comfort him with stories about what happens when you die, conquering your fear of death and such… but wait, they’re two boys, one of which is always in bed, so there’s no journey. Similarly, The Kite Runner is about a boy who plays with a kite in the same limited area of a desert. Hardly a journey if you keep going forth and back like you perpetually lost your keys. ;-)
  - jrm4 4y ago
    The point isn't that what you're saying is false, the point is that what you're saying is meaningless precisely because it can apply to literally every story.

by jrm4 4y ago

pessimizer 4y ago

It really is generic Jungian horseshit. I find it so bad (and with such airs of pseudo-profundity) that it actually complicated my feelings about Bill Moyers, about whom I like everything else. edit: I don't even know how you discuss it for more than five minutes. Whenever discussion about this Hero's Journey gets specific, it gets obviously wrong. The lane the discussion stays in is endless cherry-picking of particular events from stories and calling them examples. I get that you can tell a story about a hero taking a journey, what I want to know is why you think that most stories are about a hero taking a journey, or why that's more important than any other story, like a woman trying to start a stationary shop. And don't tell me that the woman is the hero, and the stationary shop is the journey.

slowmovintarget 4y ago
Because most stories, if they are at all compelling, are about change. As for models, The Story Circle is easier to use, but these are still models of stories. It's like arguing that "I've never seen purple weather" when discussing how weather models are shown on newscasts. That would be missing the point.
sshine 4y ago
> don't tell me that the woman is the hero, and the stationary shop is the journey. Why not? Journeys can be of the mind. That is, after all, what reading is. A classic Danish story is the Brothers Lionheart about two brothers, one of which has cancer and the other trying to comfort him with stories about what happens when you die, conquering your fear of death and such… but wait, they’re two boys, one of which is always in bed, so there’s no journey. Similarly, The Kite Runner is about a boy who plays with a kite in the same limited area of a desert. Hardly a journey if you keep going forth and back like you perpetually lost your keys. ;-)
- jrm4 4y ago
  The point isn't that what you're saying is false, the point is that what you're saying is meaningless precisely because it can apply to literally every story.