4 ms·

Like other have mentioned here, the author seems to have missed some core tenets of stoicism. Stoicism, nihilism, various forms of the Buddhist tradition all s

by bena 4y ago

Like other have mentioned here, the author seems to have missed some core tenets of stoicism. Stoicism, nihilism, various forms of the Buddhist tradition all seem to focus on the message: "You are the leaf, not the river". You can't control the river/universe. It will happen with or without you. Worrying about it or what it will do to you is almost a waste of time and energy. Like if the sun were to explode right now, it almost wouldn't warrant reaction. Because the outcome is set. Any reaction is going to be erased in 8 minutes. On a much smaller scale, you also can't control other people. They're going to do their things. If something they do affects you, do what you can to mitigate or enhance the effects depending on if the results are wanted or not. Like if I were to get fired from my job, there's little I can do to change that outcome. Even if I wanted to. So there's no point to dwell on it. I need to focus on the next thing now. I would pack up my things, scrub my work machine, turn it in, and go home to look for a new job. No crying, no yelling, etc. Disappointment, sure, but I got shit to do.

noobker 4y ago
> "You are the leaf, not the river" I'm curious why you think the author misrepresents/misunderstands stoicism on this point. The entire piece is that Stoicism is an individual's philosophy -- one that solves an individual's struggles. The philosophy helps confront that which you can't control...but the author is arguing that it will tempt you to throw up your hands, that you can't control anything. The short of it is that Stoicism encourages an individual to draw within themselves and create a worldview that is acceptable. All well and good for the individual, but the world's problems will be fixed by collective action -- not individuals withdrawing. Too much Stoic navel gazing might decrease the likelihood you join the community action board.
- bena 4y ago
  This right here: "Solution: To combat these inhuman forces you must summon inhuman willpower: Master fasting, meditation, discipline, etc." This is a modern mischaracterization of stoicism. Mainly because "non-response" is usually interpreted as some sort of strength of will. Even you, you see stoicism as some sort of withdrawal. It's not. It's not about rejecting the outside world, it's about accepting the outside world. And accepting that the outside world is just that, outside. Being upset at the past is an exercise in futility. It's wasted emotion. Wasted energy. Stoicism does not reject collective action. What is war but a collective action. And Marucs Aurelius waged him some war. But let's pretend he lost a battle. Well, getting angry isn't going to help. It's not productive. Why did you lose? Can you change things to not lose again? Etc. Accept what you cannot change. Desire to change the unalterable is the core of suffering. And sure, anything misapplied or applied too heavily can have bad outcomes. But that's true in all cases. We need water to live, yet we can also drown in it. But that's life really. There is no "answer". Especially one that means you've "solved" life. Life isn't something to be solved. Life is a river. And you are just a leaf upon it. And sometimes you might get hung up on a rock, but then an eddy will dislodge you and you will continue on down the river.

by bena 4y ago

noobker 4y ago

> "You are the leaf, not the river" I'm curious why you think the author misrepresents/misunderstands stoicism on this point. The entire piece is that Stoicism is an individual's philosophy -- one that solves an individual's struggles. The philosophy helps confront that which you can't control...but the author is arguing that it will tempt you to throw up your hands, that you can't control anything. The short of it is that Stoicism encourages an individual to draw within themselves and create a worldview that is acceptable. All well and good for the individual, but the world's problems will be fixed by collective action -- not individuals withdrawing. Too much Stoic navel gazing might decrease the likelihood you join the community action board.

bena 4y ago
This right here: "Solution: To combat these inhuman forces you must summon inhuman willpower: Master fasting, meditation, discipline, etc." This is a modern mischaracterization of stoicism. Mainly because "non-response" is usually interpreted as some sort of strength of will. Even you, you see stoicism as some sort of withdrawal. It's not. It's not about rejecting the outside world, it's about accepting the outside world. And accepting that the outside world is just that, outside. Being upset at the past is an exercise in futility. It's wasted emotion. Wasted energy. Stoicism does not reject collective action. What is war but a collective action. And Marucs Aurelius waged him some war. But let's pretend he lost a battle. Well, getting angry isn't going to help. It's not productive. Why did you lose? Can you change things to not lose again? Etc. Accept what you cannot change. Desire to change the unalterable is the core of suffering. And sure, anything misapplied or applied too heavily can have bad outcomes. But that's true in all cases. We need water to live, yet we can also drown in it. But that's life really. There is no "answer". Especially one that means you've "solved" life. Life isn't something to be solved. Life is a river. And you are just a leaf upon it. And sometimes you might get hung up on a rock, but then an eddy will dislodge you and you will continue on down the river.