6 ms·

Tim Cook revealed the real reason Apple won’t fix green bubbles

20 points by Alupis 4y ago

Flankk 4y ago
wdb 4y ago
I only use the Messages app to get MFA codes for different applications. Don't they use something like Whatsapp in the US? I think it mostly a non-issue in Europe
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  No. iPhones are dominant enough in the US that most people communicate over iMessage, or SMS if you're the one guy stuck on Android. This is the reason I haven't switched to Android—so it has worked on me at least.
  - imd 4y ago
    iOS and Android are neck and neck in the US. There was a report about iOS passing Android just days ago, so they have similar market share. I can readily believe that at certain workplaces, almost everyone has an iPhone, but this isn't true generally.
    - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
      I'm still seeing 60-40 in a quick Google search? https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-sta... I'm sure it does depend on your community too, e.g. iPhones are more common among members of the upper-middle class. (Which is why iPhone use is well above 60% in my social circle.)
- pornel 4y ago
  This is a recurring type of comment. Some people use primarily WhatsApp or FB messenger. Other people's entire social network is on iMessage. Neither talk to users of Signal. And there are also separate groups of people who think everyone is on Telegram or WeChat. Clearly there are network effects, and which app wins is varies between regions and groups.
- clpm4j 4y ago
  [I'm an American] I've heard that the reason WhatsApp became so popular in Europe is because European cellphone services used to (still do?) charge for texts per message whereas in the US it quickly became commonplace for all service providers to include "unlimited texting" plans. From my perspective, I never felt the need to download any additional app for messaging - the default messaging app was always the go-to way to text people before smart phones, and then when the iPhone came out that just continued with iMessage as the new default messaging app.
  - wdb 4y ago
    If you text messaging is free. Does that include MMS? I am not sure why it a blue or green bubble is a big problem? You would still be able to send messages or media content? The only difference I can see is the lack of end-to-end encryption and reactions (e.g. like a message)?
- kingrazor 4y ago
  I'm from the US. While there are certainly people that use it, I don't personally know anyone that uses Whatsapp, Signal, Telegram, etc... as their primary method of text communication. Nearly everyone I personally know uses iMessage or SMS, with a smaller subset using Facebook messenger.
mkrishnan 4y ago
Green bubble doesn't need any fixing as such. Google released 13 + messaging products in last 10 years. Apple provides much better compatibility to google Apps than google itself provides to its own apps lol :)
- prirun 4y ago
  The only thing that needs fixing for me (iPhone) is to use black text instead of white on the lime green bubbles. White is too hard to read. That's probably fine with Apple too though.
  - yabqk 4y ago
    Go to accessibility settings and enable increased contrast.
    - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
      But that affects the entire OS, and makes it quite ugly.
      - Jtsummers 4y ago
        Eh, it's maybe a bit less attractive but not "quite ugly". It mostly seems to take some bright shades (like reds, greens, and blues) and darkens them. It's not like MS's high contrast option (which does indeed make the whole system quite ugly, the perhaps does an even better job than the iPhone of improving visibility).
    - prirun 4y ago
      Thanks, I tried that and it works! I use dark mode and now instead of a black background with lime green bubbles and white text, it's darker green (and blue) bubbles with white text. Both are easier to read! Functionality is more important to me than aesthetics for a phone.
mkrishnan 4y ago
Users to Google: Can you provide better messaging experience? Google: let me think Google to Apple: Can you cripple your iMessaging experience so that these people would stop blaming me?
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  How would it cripple the iMessage experience to fall back to RCS, instead of ancient SMS, when texting a non-iPhone?
  - mkrishnan 4y ago
    Google version of RCS would cripple iMessage. standard RCS is not good enough to be used in practice. Basically google wants apple to use its own version of iMessage (conveniently calls it as RCS and make it looks like it is standard)
    - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
      > Google version of RCS would cripple iMessage. Why? > Basically google wants apple to use its own version of iMessage (conveniently calls it as RCS and make it looks like it is standard) They want Apple to use RCS exclusively when an Apple user texts a non-Apple user, at which point the iPhone currently falls back to SMS. How is any version of RCS worse than SMS?
joshstrange 4y ago
The lack of real journalism in this area is astounding. To pretend that RCS is ready to go, works perfectly, is a "standard", and that it's just Apple dragging it's feet is a joke. RCS is not working perfectly for phone that ostensibly support it today (at least that's what I'm hearing from my android friends). RCS is not really a standard as much as it's whatever Google wants (It's like Chrome is for the web but for messaging) and Google has the worst track record possible when it comes to messaging. Also RCS involves the carriers, I cannot think of a worse party (other than google) to involve. We wrested control from carriers years ago and this just hands them control back, it's absolutely absurd. The "standard" itself doesn't support E2E, no, that's a Google addon. It's a garbage fire and just because it's slightly better than SMS people act like it's the second coming, spare me, it's barely table stakes for a competent chat service (something google wouldn't know anything about). It's a shit "standard", it doesn't even work currently, and it's just a thinly veiled way for Google to control messaging. RCS is stupid, just use any other chat service out there if you don't want to use SMS, it's really not difficult, only the US seems to have this issue (surprise).
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  > Also RCS involves the carriers, I cannot think of a worse party (other than google) to involve. They're a better party than Apple or Google because they support multiple hardware and software ecosystems. I'd prefer some sort of nonprofit, but I'll take what I can get. > RCS is not working perfectly for phones that ostensibly support it today (at least that's what I'm hearing from my android friends). Well, fwiw I've heard the opposite.
  - intothemild 4y ago
    I have an Android and RCS works perfectly... This is someone coming from iPhones
    - Alupis 4y ago
      Apple supporters don't seem to understand RCS is supposed to replace SMS/MMS - not replace iMessage. iDevice <-> iDevice messaging will continue to use iMessage - it's everyone else that would receive RCS messages, and that's an enormous improvement over SMS/MMS. Not supporting RCS for non-Apple devices is absurd today, and would be trivial for Apple to implement. So... we're left to believe it's an intentional decision to degrade messages with non-Apple devices. As an aside, it's absurd to have proprietary texting protocols in 2022... Apple's iMessage might be great, but it requires an Apple device to work. That's frankly ridiculous. Let's get a standard that replaces SMS/MMS for everyone...
PeterStuer 4y ago
Anyone have a GDPR compliant link for this article?
wbsss4412 4y ago
Most of the world doesn’t even use iMessage, it’s all WhatsApp/messenger/WeChat. This controversy is such a nothing burger in comparison to App Store policies. There’s plenty of cross platform chat clients out there and new ones sprouting up all the time. I have an iPhone and I only communicate with a handful of people on iMessage, it’s not even that great of a chat app and it’s hardly the moat that people make it out to be.
turtlebits 4y ago
IMO this is the same as the USB-C/Lightning controversy. Apple came up with (an arguably) better solution than SMS w/ iMessage. Now there is a newer "standard" (USB-C yes, RCS not quite) and everyone wants to force Apple to change.

20 points by Alupis 4y ago

wdb 4y ago

I only use the Messages app to get MFA codes for different applications. Don't they use something like Whatsapp in the US? I think it mostly a non-issue in Europe

Wowfunhappy 4y ago
No. iPhones are dominant enough in the US that most people communicate over iMessage, or SMS if you're the one guy stuck on Android. This is the reason I haven't switched to Android—so it has worked on me at least.
- imd 4y ago
  iOS and Android are neck and neck in the US. There was a report about iOS passing Android just days ago, so they have similar market share. I can readily believe that at certain workplaces, almost everyone has an iPhone, but this isn't true generally.
  - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
    I'm still seeing 60-40 in a quick Google search? https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-sta... I'm sure it does depend on your community too, e.g. iPhones are more common among members of the upper-middle class. (Which is why iPhone use is well above 60% in my social circle.)
pornel 4y ago
This is a recurring type of comment. Some people use primarily WhatsApp or FB messenger. Other people's entire social network is on iMessage. Neither talk to users of Signal. And there are also separate groups of people who think everyone is on Telegram or WeChat. Clearly there are network effects, and which app wins is varies between regions and groups.
clpm4j 4y ago
[I'm an American] I've heard that the reason WhatsApp became so popular in Europe is because European cellphone services used to (still do?) charge for texts per message whereas in the US it quickly became commonplace for all service providers to include "unlimited texting" plans. From my perspective, I never felt the need to download any additional app for messaging - the default messaging app was always the go-to way to text people before smart phones, and then when the iPhone came out that just continued with iMessage as the new default messaging app.
- wdb 4y ago
  If you text messaging is free. Does that include MMS? I am not sure why it a blue or green bubble is a big problem? You would still be able to send messages or media content? The only difference I can see is the lack of end-to-end encryption and reactions (e.g. like a message)?
kingrazor 4y ago
I'm from the US. While there are certainly people that use it, I don't personally know anyone that uses Whatsapp, Signal, Telegram, etc... as their primary method of text communication. Nearly everyone I personally know uses iMessage or SMS, with a smaller subset using Facebook messenger.

mkrishnan 4y ago

Green bubble doesn't need any fixing as such. Google released 13 + messaging products in last 10 years. Apple provides much better compatibility to google Apps than google itself provides to its own apps lol :)

prirun 4y ago
The only thing that needs fixing for me (iPhone) is to use black text instead of white on the lime green bubbles. White is too hard to read. That's probably fine with Apple too though.
- yabqk 4y ago
  Go to accessibility settings and enable increased contrast.
  - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
    But that affects the entire OS, and makes it quite ugly.
    - Jtsummers 4y ago
      Eh, it's maybe a bit less attractive but not "quite ugly". It mostly seems to take some bright shades (like reds, greens, and blues) and darkens them. It's not like MS's high contrast option (which does indeed make the whole system quite ugly, the perhaps does an even better job than the iPhone of improving visibility).
  - prirun 4y ago
    Thanks, I tried that and it works! I use dark mode and now instead of a black background with lime green bubbles and white text, it's darker green (and blue) bubbles with white text. Both are easier to read! Functionality is more important to me than aesthetics for a phone.

mkrishnan 4y ago

Users to Google: Can you provide better messaging experience? Google: let me think Google to Apple: Can you cripple your iMessaging experience so that these people would stop blaming me?

Wowfunhappy 4y ago
How would it cripple the iMessage experience to fall back to RCS, instead of ancient SMS, when texting a non-iPhone?
- mkrishnan 4y ago
  Google version of RCS would cripple iMessage. standard RCS is not good enough to be used in practice. Basically google wants apple to use its own version of iMessage (conveniently calls it as RCS and make it looks like it is standard)
  - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
    > Google version of RCS would cripple iMessage. Why? > Basically google wants apple to use its own version of iMessage (conveniently calls it as RCS and make it looks like it is standard) They want Apple to use RCS exclusively when an Apple user texts a non-Apple user, at which point the iPhone currently falls back to SMS. How is any version of RCS worse than SMS?

joshstrange 4y ago

The lack of real journalism in this area is astounding. To pretend that RCS is ready to go, works perfectly, is a "standard", and that it's just Apple dragging it's feet is a joke. RCS is not working perfectly for phone that ostensibly support it today (at least that's what I'm hearing from my android friends). RCS is not really a standard as much as it's whatever Google wants (It's like Chrome is for the web but for messaging) and Google has the worst track record possible when it comes to messaging. Also RCS involves the carriers, I cannot think of a worse party (other than google) to involve. We wrested control from carriers years ago and this just hands them control back, it's absolutely absurd. The "standard" itself doesn't support E2E, no, that's a Google addon. It's a garbage fire and just because it's slightly better than SMS people act like it's the second coming, spare me, it's barely table stakes for a competent chat service (something google wouldn't know anything about). It's a shit "standard", it doesn't even work currently, and it's just a thinly veiled way for Google to control messaging. RCS is stupid, just use any other chat service out there if you don't want to use SMS, it's really not difficult, only the US seems to have this issue (surprise).

Wowfunhappy 4y ago
> Also RCS involves the carriers, I cannot think of a worse party (other than google) to involve. They're a better party than Apple or Google because they support multiple hardware and software ecosystems. I'd prefer some sort of nonprofit, but I'll take what I can get. > RCS is not working perfectly for phones that ostensibly support it today (at least that's what I'm hearing from my android friends). Well, fwiw I've heard the opposite.
- intothemild 4y ago
  I have an Android and RCS works perfectly... This is someone coming from iPhones
  - Alupis 4y ago
    Apple supporters don't seem to understand RCS is supposed to replace SMS/MMS - not replace iMessage. iDevice <-> iDevice messaging will continue to use iMessage - it's everyone else that would receive RCS messages, and that's an enormous improvement over SMS/MMS. Not supporting RCS for non-Apple devices is absurd today, and would be trivial for Apple to implement. So... we're left to believe it's an intentional decision to degrade messages with non-Apple devices. As an aside, it's absurd to have proprietary texting protocols in 2022... Apple's iMessage might be great, but it requires an Apple device to work. That's frankly ridiculous. Let's get a standard that replaces SMS/MMS for everyone...

PeterStuer 4y ago

Anyone have a GDPR compliant link for this article?

wbsss4412 4y ago

Most of the world doesn’t even use iMessage, it’s all WhatsApp/messenger/WeChat. This controversy is such a nothing burger in comparison to App Store policies. There’s plenty of cross platform chat clients out there and new ones sprouting up all the time. I have an iPhone and I only communicate with a handful of people on iMessage, it’s not even that great of a chat app and it’s hardly the moat that people make it out to be.

turtlebits 4y ago

IMO this is the same as the USB-C/Lightning controversy. Apple came up with (an arguably) better solution than SMS w/ iMessage. Now there is a newer "standard" (USB-C yes, RCS not quite) and everyone wants to force Apple to change.