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> user hostile No, because as a user your React "app" fails to serve my basic needs. Web forms work. (I don't care that they're ugly or don't fit your corporat

> user hostile No, because as a user your React "app" fails to serve my basic needs. Web forms work. (I don't care that they're ugly or don't fit your corporate style.) I also don't care that they made your life difficult as a programmer. Sorry. P.S. I've done my share of frontend programming too, so I feel your pain. Kind of. But sacrificing user experience for developer experience is not the way of the future.

addicted 4y ago
Nice of you to dismiss something as essential as validation as “corporate style” while somehow pretending to be on the side of user experience.
yazaddaruvala 4y ago
> that they made your life difficult as a programmer. Sorry. > But sacrificing user experience for developer experience is not the way I think you misunderstand my last comment. It’s not “difficult to maintain ergonomic web forms”, it’s roughly impossible. I know that sounds facetious but it’s true. There are too many under-experienced developers or developers who don’t “want to learn” or respect front end development. As such what should be simple is almost always broken. Three years ago I joined a team, their “relatively simple” (16ish fields) web form took 3+ seconds to load. I got them to add React (ie increase page weight) and lazy migrate to components over 3 months. We dropped time to interactive to 500ms (including the server latency), improvements got made in weeks rather than the previously scoped months reducing time on task for our users, developers were happier and users reported better feedback. This isn’t the first time I’ve personally improved a “simple web form” with React, and I know of many such success stories. You can disagree with me. You can argue they were bad developers. You can argue you would never have fallen into those traps. You might be right. But my description above is very much the reality of a very many “simple web forms” and definitely true for all complex web forms. Using a framework is just the better default. > No, because as a user your React "app" fails to serve my basic needs. Could you elaborate? Is it the “JavaScript required” issue? Increased page weight? Something else?

addicted 4y ago

Nice of you to dismiss something as essential as validation as “corporate style” while somehow pretending to be on the side of user experience.

yazaddaruvala 4y ago

> that they made your life difficult as a programmer. Sorry. > But sacrificing user experience for developer experience is not the way I think you misunderstand my last comment. It’s not “difficult to maintain ergonomic web forms”, it’s roughly impossible. I know that sounds facetious but it’s true. There are too many under-experienced developers or developers who don’t “want to learn” or respect front end development. As such what should be simple is almost always broken. Three years ago I joined a team, their “relatively simple” (16ish fields) web form took 3+ seconds to load. I got them to add React (ie increase page weight) and lazy migrate to components over 3 months. We dropped time to interactive to 500ms (including the server latency), improvements got made in weeks rather than the previously scoped months reducing time on task for our users, developers were happier and users reported better feedback. This isn’t the first time I’ve personally improved a “simple web form” with React, and I know of many such success stories. You can disagree with me. You can argue they were bad developers. You can argue you would never have fallen into those traps. You might be right. But my description above is very much the reality of a very many “simple web forms” and definitely true for all complex web forms. Using a framework is just the better default. > No, because as a user your React "app" fails to serve my basic needs. Could you elaborate? Is it the “JavaScript required” issue? Increased page weight? Something else?