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Apple for sure would have already built or acquired a search engine if it was not for Google giving them billions to stay on the iPhone.

paulcole 4y ago
I’m not so sure about this. Apple doesn’t (seem to) mind killing off sources of revenue by doing something new.
snowwrestler 4y ago
Apple did build a search engine, but it doesn’t look like Google on the front end, it looks like a set of features in Siri, Maps, iOS, MacOS, etc.
- O__________O 4y ago
  Google’s deal with Apple is specifically for iPhone’s built in web browser. Apple was working on a web search engine, but killed it off after Google renewed their deal the first time.
  - CharlesW 4y ago
    > Apple was working on a web search engine, but killed it off after Google renewed their deal the first time. They might've said they killed it off (I haven't seen reports of that), but the Applebot crawler has been increasingly indexing the web for at least 8 years, ostensibly for services like Siri and Spotlight: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204683 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204683 Also, we know Apple hates to be beholden to other companies, triply so for core platform capabilities. Search is surely that, especially as its importance extends beyond the web into meatspace — streets, stores, things, etc. Apple will introduce web search based on their search engine when it's clear that it beats Google in notable ways. If that takes another 5 years, I'd guess they're fine with that.
treis 4y ago
That's the interesting thing about this. It's an open question of which monopolist is abusing their power here. Apple threatening to use their iPhone monopoly to bully their way into search or Google paying off Apple to forestall competition.
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
It's interesting that they haven't considering their stance on privacy and user data. Maybe Facebook can cough up some dough to become a default social media app. Apple slaps down Facebook but allows Google to pay to be the default surveillance capitalist search provider?
fareesh 4y ago
An apple search engine oh man I wonder what that would be like "To list your site on Apple please submit your DUNS number and pay the $100 annual fee?"
- Spivak 4y ago
  An Apple search engine would require that people who want to be listed submit to the Web Search Guidelines which would require things like "respecting DNT", "allowing users to log in with Apple if they offer social login", "supporting Apple Pay", "no spamming", "no rehosting scraped content", and collect a 30% commission on purchases made with their special "products" results. It would be privacy first, collect no information about a user's searches but generate a ranking on a generic index based on an on-device/in-browser ML model. Apple would spend comparably little effort making sense of the messy content on random websites and instead make websites provide a curated, easily digestible format to them. And sites would bend the knee to access iPhone users. Never before would you see so many people on Reddit/HN pissed off at how successful it is.
- scarface74 4y ago
  I can’t find it for the life of me now. But someone did create a web interface to Apple’s “search engine”. It’s used in different parts of the interface. https://cmitsolutions.com/hartford/apples-web-crawler-applebot/ https://cmitsolutions.com/hartford/apples-web-crawler-appleb... On the other hand, Apple has been operating a podcast indexer for over 15 years that anyone can submit podcast RSS feeds and has had a fully documented API for searching its index the entire time. Any third party client can use it. No, Apple never stores the audio on its servers unlike Spotify.
dehrmann 4y ago
Or building a search engine as good as Google is hard.
utopcell 4y ago
Maybe. Apple passed on buying Yahoo Search when it was up for sale though.
- O__________O 4y ago
  Yahoo has used Microsoft's Bing search engine to power results since 2009.
  - utopcell 4y ago
    It has been either Bing or Google since 2009, but when Marissa came on board, she revived the old search engine team. The effort was shut down just before the sale to Verizon.

paulcole 4y ago

I’m not so sure about this. Apple doesn’t (seem to) mind killing off sources of revenue by doing something new.

snowwrestler 4y ago

Apple did build a search engine, but it doesn’t look like Google on the front end, it looks like a set of features in Siri, Maps, iOS, MacOS, etc.

O__________O 4y ago
Google’s deal with Apple is specifically for iPhone’s built in web browser. Apple was working on a web search engine, but killed it off after Google renewed their deal the first time.
- CharlesW 4y ago
  > Apple was working on a web search engine, but killed it off after Google renewed their deal the first time. They might've said they killed it off (I haven't seen reports of that), but the Applebot crawler has been increasingly indexing the web for at least 8 years, ostensibly for services like Siri and Spotlight: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204683 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204683 Also, we know Apple hates to be beholden to other companies, triply so for core platform capabilities. Search is surely that, especially as its importance extends beyond the web into meatspace — streets, stores, things, etc. Apple will introduce web search based on their search engine when it's clear that it beats Google in notable ways. If that takes another 5 years, I'd guess they're fine with that.

treis 4y ago

That's the interesting thing about this. It's an open question of which monopolist is abusing their power here. Apple threatening to use their iPhone monopoly to bully their way into search or Google paying off Apple to forestall competition.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago

It's interesting that they haven't considering their stance on privacy and user data. Maybe Facebook can cough up some dough to become a default social media app. Apple slaps down Facebook but allows Google to pay to be the default surveillance capitalist search provider?

fareesh 4y ago

An apple search engine oh man I wonder what that would be like "To list your site on Apple please submit your DUNS number and pay the $100 annual fee?"

Spivak 4y ago
An Apple search engine would require that people who want to be listed submit to the Web Search Guidelines which would require things like "respecting DNT", "allowing users to log in with Apple if they offer social login", "supporting Apple Pay", "no spamming", "no rehosting scraped content", and collect a 30% commission on purchases made with their special "products" results. It would be privacy first, collect no information about a user's searches but generate a ranking on a generic index based on an on-device/in-browser ML model. Apple would spend comparably little effort making sense of the messy content on random websites and instead make websites provide a curated, easily digestible format to them. And sites would bend the knee to access iPhone users. Never before would you see so many people on Reddit/HN pissed off at how successful it is.
scarface74 4y ago
I can’t find it for the life of me now. But someone did create a web interface to Apple’s “search engine”. It’s used in different parts of the interface. https://cmitsolutions.com/hartford/apples-web-crawler-applebot/ https://cmitsolutions.com/hartford/apples-web-crawler-appleb... On the other hand, Apple has been operating a podcast indexer for over 15 years that anyone can submit podcast RSS feeds and has had a fully documented API for searching its index the entire time. Any third party client can use it. No, Apple never stores the audio on its servers unlike Spotify.

dehrmann 4y ago

Or building a search engine as good as Google is hard.

utopcell 4y ago

Maybe. Apple passed on buying Yahoo Search when it was up for sale though.

O__________O 4y ago
Yahoo has used Microsoft's Bing search engine to power results since 2009.
- utopcell 4y ago
  It has been either Bing or Google since 2009, but when Marissa came on board, she revived the old search engine team. The effort was shut down just before the sale to Verizon.