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Yeah, not a lot of data points, and a niche subject, game dev, but I am playing with the Mach game and graphics engine, and so far so good. I started programmin

by eggy 4y ago

Yeah, not a lot of data points, and a niche subject, game dev, but I am playing with the Mach game and graphics engine, and so far so good. I started programming in 1978 in CPM Basic, C, 6502 assembler, etc. I play with Rust, but if I am really looking for high-integrity software, I am currently using SPARK2014 (the subset of Ada), that has some legs beneath it. Rust and AdaCore are starting to work together to bring some of this into Rust, but it's not there yet. So for me, Zig is my C replacement, and SPARK2014 is my C++/Rust replacement. You can go low-level with SPARK2014 too, and IMHO, it is far easier to understand than Rust, yet it already has all the high concepts of software integrity, safety, and verifiability. Excited about cross-platform graphics and performance with Zig and Mach.

pryelluw 4y ago
Thanks for sharing. Going to enjoy some time with Spark2014. OT: Searching for Spark2014 brings up a lot of results about the 2014 Chevrolet Spark. A shit box of a car of there ever was one.
- eggy 4y ago
  Hah, Chevy Spark, and it's a gasoline car! I usually put "SPARK2014 programming" or "SPARK2014 Ada" in my searches. I used to get annoyed by all of the Apache Spark stuff that came up, but that seems to have waned a bit this past year or two. Vermont Technical College (VTC) used SPARK2014 to program their CubeSat and the book, "Building High Integrity Applications with SPARK"[1] is a great intro to it in a nice context of practical use. There was also an article on the AdaCore site about someone who rewrote some drone firmware in SPARK2014, which is another nice real-world application. [2] [1] https://www.amazon.com/Building-High-Integrity-Applications-SPARK/dp/1107040736/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3OQW9ZYPSM71A&keywords=high+integrity+software&qid=1662723880&sprefix=high+integrity+sloftware%2Caps%2C60&sr=8-5 https://www.amazon.com/Building-High-Integrity-Applications-... [2] https://blog.adacore.com/how-to-prevent-drone-crashes-using-spark https://blog.adacore.com/how-to-prevent-drone-crashes-using-...
  - unwind 4y ago
    Gasoline cars have sparkplugs, so it's not really a strange association. At least not in my opinion. In fact, I guess in gas cars sparks are "better" since they are engineered in, and doing useful work.
    - eggy 4y ago
      I didn't say it was strange. I found it amusing that this is what came up during the other person's search for SPARK2014, and yes, thinking it sounded like a suitable electric vehicle name. Chevy called their electric offering Volt, and Volts are in the battery in a gas car too, but I think you get the picture.
pcwalton 4y ago
How is Spark2014 easier to understand than Rust? The borrowing rules [1] are more or less the same. [1]: https://docs.adacore.com/spark2014-docs/html/ug/en/source/language_restrictions.html#memory-ownership-policy https://docs.adacore.com/spark2014-docs/html/ug/en/source/la...
- eggy 4y ago
  Perhaps "understand" was the wrong word given I meant for me to understand. I have a C background and Pascal as well as assembler back in the day (late 70s/early 80s). I dove into Ada/SPARK2014 and picked it up much quicker than Rust. Ada has been around a lot longer than Rust, so I think it's syntax allows for a clearer readability even if they have similar borrowing rules. If I had my druthers I'd be programming in APL or J all the time, so take what I find clearer with a grain of salt. There wasn't as much tribalism around PLs as there is nowadays. I guess people stake a lot of emotion on what they have chosen as their main language or programming paradigm they may have committed so much of their time learning. I still recommend Ada/SPARK2014 to anyone who asks me about verifiable or high-inegrity software with a follow on comment to keep an eye on Rust especially with Adacore and Ferrous Systems teaming up to help Rust get there. Zig does not have a major sponsor like Rust, but it appeals to the low-level hacker, former C programmer. I love playing with Hexops' Mach game engine and graphics toolkit in Zig! I tried Bevy and Rust, but it just doesn't flow as quickly for me. Maybe it does for others.

by eggy 4y ago

pryelluw 4y ago

Thanks for sharing. Going to enjoy some time with Spark2014. OT: Searching for Spark2014 brings up a lot of results about the 2014 Chevrolet Spark. A shit box of a car of there ever was one.

eggy 4y ago
Hah, Chevy Spark, and it's a gasoline car! I usually put "SPARK2014 programming" or "SPARK2014 Ada" in my searches. I used to get annoyed by all of the Apache Spark stuff that came up, but that seems to have waned a bit this past year or two. Vermont Technical College (VTC) used SPARK2014 to program their CubeSat and the book, "Building High Integrity Applications with SPARK"[1] is a great intro to it in a nice context of practical use. There was also an article on the AdaCore site about someone who rewrote some drone firmware in SPARK2014, which is another nice real-world application. [2] [1] https://www.amazon.com/Building-High-Integrity-Applications-SPARK/dp/1107040736/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3OQW9ZYPSM71A&keywords=high+integrity+software&qid=1662723880&sprefix=high+integrity+sloftware%2Caps%2C60&sr=8-5 https://www.amazon.com/Building-High-Integrity-Applications-... [2] https://blog.adacore.com/how-to-prevent-drone-crashes-using-spark https://blog.adacore.com/how-to-prevent-drone-crashes-using-...
- unwind 4y ago
  Gasoline cars have sparkplugs, so it's not really a strange association. At least not in my opinion. In fact, I guess in gas cars sparks are "better" since they are engineered in, and doing useful work.
  - eggy 4y ago
    I didn't say it was strange. I found it amusing that this is what came up during the other person's search for SPARK2014, and yes, thinking it sounded like a suitable electric vehicle name. Chevy called their electric offering Volt, and Volts are in the battery in a gas car too, but I think you get the picture.

pcwalton 4y ago

How is Spark2014 easier to understand than Rust? The borrowing rules [1] are more or less the same. [1]: https://docs.adacore.com/spark2014-docs/html/ug/en/source/language_restrictions.html#memory-ownership-policy https://docs.adacore.com/spark2014-docs/html/ug/en/source/la...

eggy 4y ago
Perhaps "understand" was the wrong word given I meant for me to understand. I have a C background and Pascal as well as assembler back in the day (late 70s/early 80s). I dove into Ada/SPARK2014 and picked it up much quicker than Rust. Ada has been around a lot longer than Rust, so I think it's syntax allows for a clearer readability even if they have similar borrowing rules. If I had my druthers I'd be programming in APL or J all the time, so take what I find clearer with a grain of salt. There wasn't as much tribalism around PLs as there is nowadays. I guess people stake a lot of emotion on what they have chosen as their main language or programming paradigm they may have committed so much of their time learning. I still recommend Ada/SPARK2014 to anyone who asks me about verifiable or high-inegrity software with a follow on comment to keep an eye on Rust especially with Adacore and Ferrous Systems teaming up to help Rust get there. Zig does not have a major sponsor like Rust, but it appeals to the low-level hacker, former C programmer. I love playing with Hexops' Mach game engine and graphics toolkit in Zig! I tried Bevy and Rust, but it just doesn't flow as quickly for me. Maybe it does for others.