4 ms·

Depends on your definition of decentralization. Everybody seems to have either a personal best definition or simply aligns to some trendy product (that likely i

Depends on your definition of decentralization. Everybody seems to have either a personal best definition or simply aligns to some trendy product (that likely isn’t at all decentralized). My personal definition of decentralization is peer to peer without a server in the middle, like a telephone call. Nobody seems to like that definition because it’s extremely non-commercial.

blitzar 4y ago
> like a telephone call Which is routed through centralized exchanges ...
- 3np 4y ago
  Routed through, not terminated at. Important distinction. Modern web is more like everyone calling through a handful of major PBXes.
  - blitzar 4y ago
    If I pull the cable out of the back of the exchange / pbx what happens? The phone doesnt work.
    - throwaway0asd 4y ago
      A router is not a server.
      - stoplying1 4y ago
        In the context of censorship-resistant technologies, this is both technologically and semantically incorrect.
      - Karrot_Kream 4y ago
        That makes no sense. A router is a box with routing rules and a few NICs on it. I have one setup in my house that's routing packets from an overlay LAN onto my home LAN. It is very much a piece of infrastructure that I own, and if I didn't control both ends, I would certainly want to be careful with operating it. If packets were E2E encrypted, I'd still be able to shut off my server and sever the link. If you want true P2P with no intermediaries, then you need a direct P2P technology like a direct Ethernet connection or an L1 radio link with encrypted packets (and even this is fraught with a single RF collision domain.) Otherwise you are also just using a "personal definition of decentralization" that you gatekept about in your comment.
        throwaway0asd 4y ago
        Intermediaries cannot be avoided. Signals between devices are always open to interception whether that medium in between is copper, air, water, something else. That is completely out of scope. The goal is to prevent deliberate third parties and regard unintended third parties as security consideration.
- throwaway0asd 4y ago
  The internet is composed of routers and switches, but those aren’t application servers. Telephones have a start point and an end point without a telephone server in the middle.
selectnull 4y ago
Agreed that everyone has their own personal definition. With that in mind, I would never think of telephone as decentralized, at least not more than any other service provided by a company.

blitzar 4y ago

> like a telephone call Which is routed through centralized exchanges ...

3np 4y ago
Routed through, not terminated at. Important distinction. Modern web is more like everyone calling through a handful of major PBXes.
- blitzar 4y ago
  If I pull the cable out of the back of the exchange / pbx what happens? The phone doesnt work.
  - throwaway0asd 4y ago
    A router is not a server.
    - stoplying1 4y ago
      In the context of censorship-resistant technologies, this is both technologically and semantically incorrect.
    - Karrot_Kream 4y ago
      That makes no sense. A router is a box with routing rules and a few NICs on it. I have one setup in my house that's routing packets from an overlay LAN onto my home LAN. It is very much a piece of infrastructure that I own, and if I didn't control both ends, I would certainly want to be careful with operating it. If packets were E2E encrypted, I'd still be able to shut off my server and sever the link. If you want true P2P with no intermediaries, then you need a direct P2P technology like a direct Ethernet connection or an L1 radio link with encrypted packets (and even this is fraught with a single RF collision domain.) Otherwise you are also just using a "personal definition of decentralization" that you gatekept about in your comment.
      - throwaway0asd 4y ago
        Intermediaries cannot be avoided. Signals between devices are always open to interception whether that medium in between is copper, air, water, something else. That is completely out of scope. The goal is to prevent deliberate third parties and regard unintended third parties as security consideration.
throwaway0asd 4y ago
The internet is composed of routers and switches, but those aren’t application servers. Telephones have a start point and an end point without a telephone server in the middle.

selectnull 4y ago

Agreed that everyone has their own personal definition. With that in mind, I would never think of telephone as decentralized, at least not more than any other service provided by a company.