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This is how insane Germany still is: https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/berlin-eyes-oil-fired-powerships-to-secure-electricity-for-the-winter/ https:/

by rasz 4y ago

This is how insane Germany still is: https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/berlin-eyes-oil-fired-powerships-to-secure-electricity-for-the-winter/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/berlin-eyes-oil... >But despite warnings of multi-hour blackouts, Economy and Climate Action Minister Robert Habeck confirmed the country’s planned nuclear power phase-out by the end of 2022. >Germany’s nuclear exit will only be forestalled by a temporary cold reserve of two power plants, which could be reactivated if needed to ensure grid stability in the country’s South >On Monday, Berlin decided to mothball two of its nuclear reactors for months despite a host of experts insisting they continue running, while the third will be shut down completely, to be replaced by swimming oil-fired power plants.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago
Yes, its a popular diversionary technique to point to their phaseout of nuclear, which isnt even their worst decision, as proof that they're not serious about climate change, or they're destroying their economy or sacrificing their security because they are serious about insane green concerns. But they're still a world leader on this stuff, despite their faults, and the people who continually focus on their nuclear phase out seem to be repeating talking points they don't even understand, because they are a world leader on this.
- rasz 4y ago
  "replaced by swimming oil-fired power plants."
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    This is like complaining that someone hired an ICE car while they wait for their EV delivery. Short-term, relocatable, oil-based power stations are not a good long term answer, but as a short term fix they're probably better than keeping nuclear open in terms of cost/benefit. If you're trying to catch them out, for whatever reason, then their continued coal usage is probably a better thing to point to. Hiring temporary power stations while the whole of europe is in a gas crisis seems totally reasonable.
    - rasz 4y ago
      No, its complaining about someone hiring F-350 Limited Crew Cab while declaring their two fully charged EVs 'too old'. Part of EU gas crisis is due to DE late panic buying all available sources at whatever the cost https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/as-eu-is-asked-to-mobilise-all-available-energy-anger-at-germany-grows/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/as-eu-is-asked-... >Germany, the EU’s biggest economy, is also the country most dependent on Russian gas, which hampered the bloc’s ability to react more strongly to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. >In its rush to reduce the Kremlin’s grip on Berlin, it snapped up every molecule of gas it could find, subsidising large-scale LNG purchases with billions in free credit. >Today, Germany’s gas storage is around 87% full. But this, too, has not proven to be the most popular policy. >“The price of gas is skyrocketing. Why? Because of, actually, Germany buying a lot of gas after July 23rd when they said this is the second phase of the alarm,” explained Nils Torvald, a liberal EU parliamentarian from Finland, at an EURACTIV event on Tuesday. I really like this take: >“If Germany does not take any responsibility for its energy security, I will propose to our government that we cut the Baltic cable,” commented Take Anstoot from the Swedish Greens. DE is so rich they can afford higher cost while hiking energy bills for everyone else, and they still dont seem to be giving a f.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  Germany has massively higher emissions than France, for instance, because of its continued reliance on coal and gas, and even oil, which is indeed partly due to its phasing out nuclear. I think 'seriousness' on climate change should be judge on emissions numbers, not spin about renewables.
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    Germany has caught up on France in GHGemissions per dollar GDP across their whole economy, because there is more to climate change than just electricity production. While phasing out nuclear. They're doing better than the USA for example.
    - mytailorisrich 4y ago
      This is a strawman argument. You're ignoring the point, which is actual emissions, and are arguing instead that they are are getting more GDP per unit emissions than other, which is not the same and certainly is orthogonal to amount of emissions.

by rasz 4y ago

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

Yes, its a popular diversionary technique to point to their phaseout of nuclear, which isnt even their worst decision, as proof that they're not serious about climate change, or they're destroying their economy or sacrificing their security because they are serious about insane green concerns. But they're still a world leader on this stuff, despite their faults, and the people who continually focus on their nuclear phase out seem to be repeating talking points they don't even understand, because they are a world leader on this.

rasz 4y ago
"replaced by swimming oil-fired power plants."
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  This is like complaining that someone hired an ICE car while they wait for their EV delivery. Short-term, relocatable, oil-based power stations are not a good long term answer, but as a short term fix they're probably better than keeping nuclear open in terms of cost/benefit. If you're trying to catch them out, for whatever reason, then their continued coal usage is probably a better thing to point to. Hiring temporary power stations while the whole of europe is in a gas crisis seems totally reasonable.
  - rasz 4y ago
    No, its complaining about someone hiring F-350 Limited Crew Cab while declaring their two fully charged EVs 'too old'. Part of EU gas crisis is due to DE late panic buying all available sources at whatever the cost https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/as-eu-is-asked-to-mobilise-all-available-energy-anger-at-germany-grows/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/as-eu-is-asked-... >Germany, the EU’s biggest economy, is also the country most dependent on Russian gas, which hampered the bloc’s ability to react more strongly to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. >In its rush to reduce the Kremlin’s grip on Berlin, it snapped up every molecule of gas it could find, subsidising large-scale LNG purchases with billions in free credit. >Today, Germany’s gas storage is around 87% full. But this, too, has not proven to be the most popular policy. >“The price of gas is skyrocketing. Why? Because of, actually, Germany buying a lot of gas after July 23rd when they said this is the second phase of the alarm,” explained Nils Torvald, a liberal EU parliamentarian from Finland, at an EURACTIV event on Tuesday. I really like this take: >“If Germany does not take any responsibility for its energy security, I will propose to our government that we cut the Baltic cable,” commented Take Anstoot from the Swedish Greens. DE is so rich they can afford higher cost while hiking energy bills for everyone else, and they still dont seem to be giving a f.
mytailorisrich 4y ago
Germany has massively higher emissions than France, for instance, because of its continued reliance on coal and gas, and even oil, which is indeed partly due to its phasing out nuclear. I think 'seriousness' on climate change should be judge on emissions numbers, not spin about renewables.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  Germany has caught up on France in GHGemissions per dollar GDP across their whole economy, because there is more to climate change than just electricity production. While phasing out nuclear. They're doing better than the USA for example.
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    This is a strawman argument. You're ignoring the point, which is actual emissions, and are arguing instead that they are are getting more GDP per unit emissions than other, which is not the same and certainly is orthogonal to amount of emissions.