3 ms·

> The college said then that the bakery’s “archaic chase-and-detain policy regarding suspected shoplifters was the catalyst for the protests.” IIRC, the employ

> The college said then that the bakery’s “archaic chase-and-detain policy regarding suspected shoplifters was the catalyst for the protests.” IIRC, the employee tried to take a photo of the shoplifter with his phone. The shoplifter took/smashed the phone or something. This makes it much more reasonable for the employee to try to stop the shoplifter from getting away. It wasn't like he tried to cuff the guy off the bat. He started with taking a photo but was thwarted.

Lazare 4y ago
Yep. From wikipedia: > On Wednesday, November 9, 2016, an underage African-American Oberlin College student and Student Assistant Treasurer,[9] Jonathan Aladin (aka Elijah Aladin), attempted to purchase a bottle of wine using a fake identification card.[8] The store clerk, Allyn D. Gibson, a son and grandson of the owners,[6] rejected the fake ID. Gibson noticed that the student was concealing two other bottles of wine inside his jacket.[10][6] According to a police report, Gibson told the student he was contacting the police, and when Gibson pulled out his phone to take a photo of the student, the student slapped it away, striking Gibson's face.[11] The student ran out of the store. Gibson followed and then grabbed and held onto the shoplifter outside the store after the shoplifter had also assaulted the store owner, David Gibson.[6] Two other students, Cecelia Whettstone and Endia Lawrence, friends of the shoplifter, joined the scuffle.[6] When the police arrived, they witnessed Gibson lying on the ground with the three students punching and kicking him.[11] The police report stated that Gibson sustained a swollen lip, several cuts, and other minor injuries.[7][12] The police arrested the students, charging all three with assault and the shoplifter with robbery as well. In August 2017, the three students pleaded guilty, stating that they believed Gibson's actions were justified and were not racially motivated.[11][13][14] Their plea deals carried no jail time in exchange for restitution, the public statement, and a promise of future good behavior.[13][15] From their trial courtroom, Assistant Dean of Students Antoinette Myers sent Raimondo a text message: "I hope we rain fire and brimstone on that store."[16] That's not really an example of a "chase-and-detain policy", nor was it a "suspected shoplifter"; by the time anyone was chasing anyone else, it was a matter of assault.
- MikePlacid 4y ago
  > That's not really an example of a "chase-and-detain policy", nor was it a "suspected shoplifter"; by the time anyone was chasing anyone else, it was a matter of assault. I was under the impression that punching and kicking turns shoplifting into a robbery, no?
  - effingwewt 4y ago
    Thus this part of OP's quote 'The police arrested the students, charging all three with assault and the shoplifter with robbery as well'. Oberlin was in the wrong, as was the Assistant Dean of Students, yet there were no real repercussions.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  That whole scenario make me sad. And just show how broken the system is. Assault a person and get away with not spending years in prison. That if something is massive privilege... Disgusting.
  - prirun 4y ago
    It pisses me off that a person smoking weed and not harming anyone can be thrown in jail, fined for all kinds of things (court costs, etc), and there is no victim to show mercy on them like the store did for these 3 students behaving like thugs. Yet these thugs get off with an apology, a statement, and a promise. I don't smoke weed, but we sure have our priorities wrong.
- languageserver 4y ago
  > Their plea deals carried no jail time in exchange for restitution, the public statement, and a promise of future good behavior. people say the US has a strict justice system, but in some cases it seems completely loony.
pc86 4y ago
It doesn't even qualify in this instance, but in what universe is thinking that people who commit crimes should be detained so they can be arrested an archaic thing? You don't need to have a Blue Lives bumper sticker on your car to think that people being punished for committing crimes is a good thing.
- UberFly 4y ago
  There's your first mistake - thinking logically and rationally about the issue. Anymore, these kinds of issues have become religion.
- JeremyNT 4y ago
  I've worked retail and in no universe would I ever try to physically detain anybody. This has been the explicit policy of the companies I worked for. Losing a little merchandise is no big deal, especially if you can identify the person to police in a report later. Attempting to detain a person is dangerous all around. The risk of escalation and injury to the parties involved is high, and a simple shoplifting can turn into something much worse (as happened here). You never know what drugs a shoplifter might be on, or what weapons they might have. I'm sympathetic to the person being robbed, and this is no defense of the actions of the robber in any way, but it's always the smarter play to let the cops deal with it.
  - pc86 4y ago
    One, it wasn't just shoplifting, they were also assaulted by the student. Two, there's a big difference between saying "it's risky, I wouldn't do, company policy is not to," etc. and "detaining criminals is archaic and if you do it and the criminal happens to be black, that makes you a racist." I probably wouldn't do anything either. But I also wouldn't begrudge anyone who who has spent years building that business who decides they're not going to let people just walk in and steal stuff.
  - emmelaich 4y ago
    It is a family business, the detainer was a member of the family. Hard to compare with a min wage employee at Target or whatever.

Lazare 4y ago

Yep. From wikipedia: > On Wednesday, November 9, 2016, an underage African-American Oberlin College student and Student Assistant Treasurer,[9] Jonathan Aladin (aka Elijah Aladin), attempted to purchase a bottle of wine using a fake identification card.[8] The store clerk, Allyn D. Gibson, a son and grandson of the owners,[6] rejected the fake ID. Gibson noticed that the student was concealing two other bottles of wine inside his jacket.[10][6] According to a police report, Gibson told the student he was contacting the police, and when Gibson pulled out his phone to take a photo of the student, the student slapped it away, striking Gibson's face.[11] The student ran out of the store. Gibson followed and then grabbed and held onto the shoplifter outside the store after the shoplifter had also assaulted the store owner, David Gibson.[6] Two other students, Cecelia Whettstone and Endia Lawrence, friends of the shoplifter, joined the scuffle.[6] When the police arrived, they witnessed Gibson lying on the ground with the three students punching and kicking him.[11] The police report stated that Gibson sustained a swollen lip, several cuts, and other minor injuries.[7][12] The police arrested the students, charging all three with assault and the shoplifter with robbery as well. In August 2017, the three students pleaded guilty, stating that they believed Gibson's actions were justified and were not racially motivated.[11][13][14] Their plea deals carried no jail time in exchange for restitution, the public statement, and a promise of future good behavior.[13][15] From their trial courtroom, Assistant Dean of Students Antoinette Myers sent Raimondo a text message: "I hope we rain fire and brimstone on that store."[16] That's not really an example of a "chase-and-detain policy", nor was it a "suspected shoplifter"; by the time anyone was chasing anyone else, it was a matter of assault.

MikePlacid 4y ago
> That's not really an example of a "chase-and-detain policy", nor was it a "suspected shoplifter"; by the time anyone was chasing anyone else, it was a matter of assault. I was under the impression that punching and kicking turns shoplifting into a robbery, no?
- effingwewt 4y ago
  Thus this part of OP's quote 'The police arrested the students, charging all three with assault and the shoplifter with robbery as well'. Oberlin was in the wrong, as was the Assistant Dean of Students, yet there were no real repercussions.
Ekaros 4y ago
That whole scenario make me sad. And just show how broken the system is. Assault a person and get away with not spending years in prison. That if something is massive privilege... Disgusting.
- prirun 4y ago
  It pisses me off that a person smoking weed and not harming anyone can be thrown in jail, fined for all kinds of things (court costs, etc), and there is no victim to show mercy on them like the store did for these 3 students behaving like thugs. Yet these thugs get off with an apology, a statement, and a promise. I don't smoke weed, but we sure have our priorities wrong.
languageserver 4y ago
> Their plea deals carried no jail time in exchange for restitution, the public statement, and a promise of future good behavior. people say the US has a strict justice system, but in some cases it seems completely loony.

pc86 4y ago

It doesn't even qualify in this instance, but in what universe is thinking that people who commit crimes should be detained so they can be arrested an archaic thing? You don't need to have a Blue Lives bumper sticker on your car to think that people being punished for committing crimes is a good thing.

UberFly 4y ago
There's your first mistake - thinking logically and rationally about the issue. Anymore, these kinds of issues have become religion.
JeremyNT 4y ago
I've worked retail and in no universe would I ever try to physically detain anybody. This has been the explicit policy of the companies I worked for. Losing a little merchandise is no big deal, especially if you can identify the person to police in a report later. Attempting to detain a person is dangerous all around. The risk of escalation and injury to the parties involved is high, and a simple shoplifting can turn into something much worse (as happened here). You never know what drugs a shoplifter might be on, or what weapons they might have. I'm sympathetic to the person being robbed, and this is no defense of the actions of the robber in any way, but it's always the smarter play to let the cops deal with it.
- pc86 4y ago
  One, it wasn't just shoplifting, they were also assaulted by the student. Two, there's a big difference between saying "it's risky, I wouldn't do, company policy is not to," etc. and "detaining criminals is archaic and if you do it and the criminal happens to be black, that makes you a racist." I probably wouldn't do anything either. But I also wouldn't begrudge anyone who who has spent years building that business who decides they're not going to let people just walk in and steal stuff.
- emmelaich 4y ago
  It is a family business, the detainer was a member of the family. Hard to compare with a min wage employee at Target or whatever.