3 ms·

I guess I don't understand - the troll will report your 6 year old for dropping f-bombs? And the chat logs (which MS will now have) will back then up? And why a

I guess I don't understand - the troll will report your 6 year old for dropping f-bombs? And the chat logs (which MS will now have) will back then up? And why are you inviting trolls to play with your 6 year old? (We're somewhat new to Minecraft, so I may be missing something here.)

zbird 4y ago
> I guess I don't understand - the troll will report your 6 year old for dropping f-bombs? They'll report for no reason, that's the point of trolling. > And the chat logs (which MS will now have) will back then up? I have not played Minecraft, but I'd be surprised if the server admins of any game of such scale acted on logs. Also, I wouldn't want my kids to be logged on a corporate server. > And why are you inviting trolls to play with your 6 year old? Are the rooms invite only? Then what's the point of Microsoft's draconian measures here? I thought the point was to censor public servers, but again, I haven't played this much. In any case, this situation already looks like defeat for an online community.
- ckemere 4y ago
  We've done limited server play with friends. As far as I understand, anyone can download and run the server software (literally - it's a free download). To log into a server, you need the IP address (and need to understand how to port forward if going outside the home etc etc). P I think my broader point is that I appreciate Microsoft saying they want Minecraft to be a profanity -free zone. There are plenty in the "online community" that seem to be quite happy being G-rated. My 9-yeae old has watched about 100 hours of YouTube from "Pixlriffs" and its been wonderful despite random zombie attacks or whatnot.
  - Cr4shMyCar 4y ago
    From what Microsoft's said, it's less about profanity and more about taking down things like serious threats, doxxing/stalking, etc. I have no issue with moderating that, and I'm glad it's (at least in theory) not being used as a filter to keep everything that happens in Minecraft G-rated since a lot of more mature people play it. I think implementing a game-wide ban on a community that's spread across thousands of individual servers has the potential to cause so much harm if someone makes a mistake or there's a glitch, not to mention trolls gaming the system to get people they don't like banned. Content moderation at scale is impossible, and considering Minecraft's still one of the biggest games in the world, mistakes will be made. As an aside, have you looked into putting a whitelist on your server? It could provide a lot of peace of mind, especially when you're trying to keep it to just your kids and friends.
    - zbird 4y ago
      I see, I imagine the server you put on is by default public and joinable by anyone. This kind of stuff typically has some form of whitelisting or password protection to keep the server semi-private.
JetAlone 4y ago
It seems that anyone can report anyone else, on any server, even tiny private ones. They have to say what kind of complaint it is from a list, but a disingenuous actor can find ways to stretch the definitions or just outright lie about the incident. Whichever person or whatever machine is in charge of reviewing these complaints decides the report is valid, that person is banned from all online play. I'm not seeing from this thread any info on what the appeals system is like, but I would be completely unshocked if it were, once again, a system where people who aren't highly invisible on social media will end up SOL. There was a vulnerability in the past that 2B2T users discovered, which enabled them to essentially track any player's activity and find the IPs of private servers, even ones run by family. They used it to grief even a server where only one person was logged in, AFK, at the time. Though unlikely, a hacker with a new vulnerability helping them to discover this kind of information could hypothetically find anyone's private group, drop in, and report. EDIT: The griefing tool is called Project Copenhiemer, and the user named orsond who is a member of the Fifth Column which created Copenhiemer, made a post about it here on this comment section page. Refer to their comment.
- ckemere 4y ago
  > I'm not seeing from this thread any info on what the appeals system is like, but I would be completely unshocked if it were, once again, a system where people who aren't highly invisible on social media will end up SOL. I totally get this. My support is for the sentiment Microsoft is expressing. As with so many things online without the actual commitment of real people who are culturally connected (e.g. Daniel and Scott for HN), it will likely go south.
synicalx 4y ago
> And why are you inviting trolls to play with your 6 year old? Public servers with hundreds of players and little to no barrier to entry - they'll be full of "trolls". All the 6 y/o has to do is join one, which takes about 5 seconds.
nottorp 4y ago
> I guess I don't understand - the troll will report your 6 year old for dropping f-bombs? Yes. > And the chat logs (which MS will now have) will back then up? Why do you think anyone will check the chat logs? That's too expensive at MS scale, it's an automatic ban. Only admins of private servers actually check the chat logs :) > And why are you inviting trolls to play with your 6 year old? There are thousands of public player run servers. Some are quite fun. Whatever your idea of fun is, there should be at least a hundred that match. > (We're somewhat new to Minecraft, so I may be missing something here.) You're missing all the communities that were built before MS tried to turn it into software as a service to justify their billion spent on Minecraft.

zbird 4y ago

> I guess I don't understand - the troll will report your 6 year old for dropping f-bombs? They'll report for no reason, that's the point of trolling. > And the chat logs (which MS will now have) will back then up? I have not played Minecraft, but I'd be surprised if the server admins of any game of such scale acted on logs. Also, I wouldn't want my kids to be logged on a corporate server. > And why are you inviting trolls to play with your 6 year old? Are the rooms invite only? Then what's the point of Microsoft's draconian measures here? I thought the point was to censor public servers, but again, I haven't played this much. In any case, this situation already looks like defeat for an online community.

ckemere 4y ago
We've done limited server play with friends. As far as I understand, anyone can download and run the server software (literally - it's a free download). To log into a server, you need the IP address (and need to understand how to port forward if going outside the home etc etc). P I think my broader point is that I appreciate Microsoft saying they want Minecraft to be a profanity -free zone. There are plenty in the "online community" that seem to be quite happy being G-rated. My 9-yeae old has watched about 100 hours of YouTube from "Pixlriffs" and its been wonderful despite random zombie attacks or whatnot.
- Cr4shMyCar 4y ago
  From what Microsoft's said, it's less about profanity and more about taking down things like serious threats, doxxing/stalking, etc. I have no issue with moderating that, and I'm glad it's (at least in theory) not being used as a filter to keep everything that happens in Minecraft G-rated since a lot of more mature people play it. I think implementing a game-wide ban on a community that's spread across thousands of individual servers has the potential to cause so much harm if someone makes a mistake or there's a glitch, not to mention trolls gaming the system to get people they don't like banned. Content moderation at scale is impossible, and considering Minecraft's still one of the biggest games in the world, mistakes will be made. As an aside, have you looked into putting a whitelist on your server? It could provide a lot of peace of mind, especially when you're trying to keep it to just your kids and friends.
  - zbird 4y ago
    I see, I imagine the server you put on is by default public and joinable by anyone. This kind of stuff typically has some form of whitelisting or password protection to keep the server semi-private.

JetAlone 4y ago

It seems that anyone can report anyone else, on any server, even tiny private ones. They have to say what kind of complaint it is from a list, but a disingenuous actor can find ways to stretch the definitions or just outright lie about the incident. Whichever person or whatever machine is in charge of reviewing these complaints decides the report is valid, that person is banned from all online play. I'm not seeing from this thread any info on what the appeals system is like, but I would be completely unshocked if it were, once again, a system where people who aren't highly invisible on social media will end up SOL. There was a vulnerability in the past that 2B2T users discovered, which enabled them to essentially track any player's activity and find the IPs of private servers, even ones run by family. They used it to grief even a server where only one person was logged in, AFK, at the time. Though unlikely, a hacker with a new vulnerability helping them to discover this kind of information could hypothetically find anyone's private group, drop in, and report. EDIT: The griefing tool is called Project Copenhiemer, and the user named orsond who is a member of the Fifth Column which created Copenhiemer, made a post about it here on this comment section page. Refer to their comment.

ckemere 4y ago
> I'm not seeing from this thread any info on what the appeals system is like, but I would be completely unshocked if it were, once again, a system where people who aren't highly invisible on social media will end up SOL. I totally get this. My support is for the sentiment Microsoft is expressing. As with so many things online without the actual commitment of real people who are culturally connected (e.g. Daniel and Scott for HN), it will likely go south.

synicalx 4y ago

> And why are you inviting trolls to play with your 6 year old? Public servers with hundreds of players and little to no barrier to entry - they'll be full of "trolls". All the 6 y/o has to do is join one, which takes about 5 seconds.

nottorp 4y ago

> I guess I don't understand - the troll will report your 6 year old for dropping f-bombs? Yes. > And the chat logs (which MS will now have) will back then up? Why do you think anyone will check the chat logs? That's too expensive at MS scale, it's an automatic ban. Only admins of private servers actually check the chat logs :) > And why are you inviting trolls to play with your 6 year old? There are thousands of public player run servers. Some are quite fun. Whatever your idea of fun is, there should be at least a hundred that match. > (We're somewhat new to Minecraft, so I may be missing something here.) You're missing all the communities that were built before MS tried to turn it into software as a service to justify their billion spent on Minecraft.