5 ms·

if you are worried about the harmful behavioral effects of psychedelics, consider that a significant fraction of all violent crimes involve alcohol: * 15% of r

by ruined 4y ago

if you are worried about the harmful behavioral effects of psychedelics, consider that a significant fraction of all violent crimes involve alcohol: * 15% of robberies * 37% of sexual assaults * 27% of aggravated assaults * 60% of domestic violence (victim reported) * 40% of child abusers (self reported) * 40% of convicted murderers (self reported) * 30% of traffic violence fatalities https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/alcohol/crimes/ https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/alcohol/crimes/ psychedelics are essentially insignificant and are almost never involved in violence.

dsl 4y ago
Sounds like both should be illegal then?
- akomtu 4y ago
  No, it means both should be legal and the behavior is what should be prosecuted, not the substance taken.
  - astrange 4y ago
    > An English teacher in high school witnessed her friend jump to her death from a balcony after taking LSD. The woman said she felt light as a bird, took off running, hopped up a chair and dove over the railing to the pavement 20 feet below. She broke her neck. What behavior could be prosecuted here except for giving someone LSD without supervision?
    - akomtu 4y ago
      Who do we prosecute when a motorcyclist crashes into a tree at 120 mph?
      - astrange 4y ago
        We should prosecute the US institute of traffic engineers since it’s literally in their model policy that streets must be designed so you can go fast enough to kill yourself, and the correct number of pedestrian deaths before considering any mitigations is significantly more than none.
        LtdJorge 4y ago
        So if you go faster than kill-yourself speed a missile gets fired and evaporates you? Or how are you supposed to make a street that doesn't allow you to go fast enough to kill yourself?
        astrange 4y ago
        Make 'em wiggly and add stop signs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming https://visionzeronetwork.org/about/what-is-vision-zero/ https://visionzeronetwork.org/about/what-is-vision-zero/
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      The trope of people jumping out of windows on LSD is entirely Art Linkletter's fault for not being able to accept his daughter's suicide, but instead blaming in on the fact that she had mentioned that she had done LSD before. Since, if you're on LSD (or pretending to be) and acting out, the first thing you're expected to do is talk about how you can fly and threatening to jump out of the window. It's silly. No part of LSD makes upper-floor windows magnetic, and the trope has proved longer lasting than the memory of Art or Diane Linkletter. edit: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-scarlet-linkletter/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-scarlet-linkletter/ > Diane’s death helped spread a widespread urban legend that lives on to this day, although it was around well before her fatal plunge. According to a popular story that warns young people about the dangers of drug use, “some girl” jumps from a window while on an acid trip because the drug fools her into thinking she can fly. The claims immediately made after Diane’s death that she had been on LSD, coupled with her method of suicide, seemed to some to fit this existing cautionary tale, and afterwards her demise was pointed to as an example of this legend’s coming true.
      - filoeleven 4y ago
        > No part of LSD makes upper-floor windows magnetic Salvinorin-a on the other hand has (slightly?) more potential for this scenario. Users can experience what they call “salvia gravity,” a sensation of being pulled in some particular direction, which they follow with their body. I saw someone curl into and begin to lean against a 2nd-floor window screen. His friends kept him safe for the ~7 minutes the trip lasted. If he had been alone though, he could have fallen out. I don’t know how common that effect is, and it’s quite different from the folklore of people thinking they can fly on acid. This is just a PSA for the few people who are interested in trying that particular drug.
  - mike_d 4y ago
    That seems like an odd argument for a substance that disconnects you from your actions.
worik 4y ago
Yes. And. I often hear stories about people tripping on mushrooms getting upto mischief. When I did I always find that, along with the mushrooms, there was a bottle of whiskey, or equivalent. My culture is awash with alcohol. It is hard to disentangle the dreadful effects of the alcohol overdose experience form the psychedelic experience after consuming a bottle of whiskey.
MisterTea 4y ago
I am worried about self harm.
- ruined 4y ago
  in that case, consider that around a third of all suicides are actively drunk at the time, and people addicted to alcohol suffer as much as a 120x greater suicide risk https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/resources/dual-diagnosis/alcohol-and-suicide/ https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/resources/dual-diagnosis/a... and then consider the mortality and harm caused directly by consumption of alcohol, which is significant, and one of the statistically largest causes of death at 140,000 people killed per year https://nccd.cdc.gov/DPH_ARDI/ https://nccd.cdc.gov/DPH_ARDI/ and once again, the involvement of psychedelics with with suicide is extremely limited and rare. psychedelics are often self-reported as a source of long-term relief from suicidal feelings, after even a single experience. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8033757/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8033757/
- int_19h 4y ago
  Are you worried about self-harm that psychedelics are able to prevent?

by ruined 4y ago

dsl 4y ago

Sounds like both should be illegal then?

akomtu 4y ago
No, it means both should be legal and the behavior is what should be prosecuted, not the substance taken.
- astrange 4y ago
  > An English teacher in high school witnessed her friend jump to her death from a balcony after taking LSD. The woman said she felt light as a bird, took off running, hopped up a chair and dove over the railing to the pavement 20 feet below. She broke her neck. What behavior could be prosecuted here except for giving someone LSD without supervision?
  - akomtu 4y ago
    Who do we prosecute when a motorcyclist crashes into a tree at 120 mph?
    - astrange 4y ago
      We should prosecute the US institute of traffic engineers since it’s literally in their model policy that streets must be designed so you can go fast enough to kill yourself, and the correct number of pedestrian deaths before considering any mitigations is significantly more than none.
      - LtdJorge 4y ago
        So if you go faster than kill-yourself speed a missile gets fired and evaporates you? Or how are you supposed to make a street that doesn't allow you to go fast enough to kill yourself?
        astrange 4y ago
        Make 'em wiggly and add stop signs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming https://visionzeronetwork.org/about/what-is-vision-zero/ https://visionzeronetwork.org/about/what-is-vision-zero/
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    The trope of people jumping out of windows on LSD is entirely Art Linkletter's fault for not being able to accept his daughter's suicide, but instead blaming in on the fact that she had mentioned that she had done LSD before. Since, if you're on LSD (or pretending to be) and acting out, the first thing you're expected to do is talk about how you can fly and threatening to jump out of the window. It's silly. No part of LSD makes upper-floor windows magnetic, and the trope has proved longer lasting than the memory of Art or Diane Linkletter. edit: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-scarlet-linkletter/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-scarlet-linkletter/ > Diane’s death helped spread a widespread urban legend that lives on to this day, although it was around well before her fatal plunge. According to a popular story that warns young people about the dangers of drug use, “some girl” jumps from a window while on an acid trip because the drug fools her into thinking she can fly. The claims immediately made after Diane’s death that she had been on LSD, coupled with her method of suicide, seemed to some to fit this existing cautionary tale, and afterwards her demise was pointed to as an example of this legend’s coming true.
    - filoeleven 4y ago
      > No part of LSD makes upper-floor windows magnetic Salvinorin-a on the other hand has (slightly?) more potential for this scenario. Users can experience what they call “salvia gravity,” a sensation of being pulled in some particular direction, which they follow with their body. I saw someone curl into and begin to lean against a 2nd-floor window screen. His friends kept him safe for the ~7 minutes the trip lasted. If he had been alone though, he could have fallen out. I don’t know how common that effect is, and it’s quite different from the folklore of people thinking they can fly on acid. This is just a PSA for the few people who are interested in trying that particular drug.
- mike_d 4y ago
  That seems like an odd argument for a substance that disconnects you from your actions.

worik 4y ago

Yes. And. I often hear stories about people tripping on mushrooms getting upto mischief. When I did I always find that, along with the mushrooms, there was a bottle of whiskey, or equivalent. My culture is awash with alcohol. It is hard to disentangle the dreadful effects of the alcohol overdose experience form the psychedelic experience after consuming a bottle of whiskey.

MisterTea 4y ago

I am worried about self harm.

ruined 4y ago
in that case, consider that around a third of all suicides are actively drunk at the time, and people addicted to alcohol suffer as much as a 120x greater suicide risk https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/resources/dual-diagnosis/alcohol-and-suicide/ https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/resources/dual-diagnosis/a... and then consider the mortality and harm caused directly by consumption of alcohol, which is significant, and one of the statistically largest causes of death at 140,000 people killed per year https://nccd.cdc.gov/DPH_ARDI/ https://nccd.cdc.gov/DPH_ARDI/ and once again, the involvement of psychedelics with with suicide is extremely limited and rare. psychedelics are often self-reported as a source of long-term relief from suicidal feelings, after even a single experience. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8033757/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8033757/
int_19h 4y ago
Are you worried about self-harm that psychedelics are able to prevent?