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Eight Secret Societies (2016)
- criddell 4y agoThe article mentions how in the past, the Patriotic Order Sons of America didn't allow black people to join. They eventually changed but I'm wondering if the change was forced. Is it legal to discriminate on the basis of race or sex today?
- hprotagonist 4y agoIt Depends (tm) but generally a private club can admit, or not, whoever they please, or don't.
- OJFord 4y agoIn the UK (& I believe EU) that's true to the extent that you could have an even more personal ('I don't like your face') objection, but your reasoning can't be on the basis of a 'protected characteristic', such as race. Though actually maybe private members' clubs have some kind of exception to that - gender is also a protected characteristic under that act, but there are gentlemen's (only) clubs still (ladies' too perhaps, I'm not sure).
- moritonal 4y agoThere are male-only clubs (The Garrack, Savage Club), and more modern female and non-binary only clubs (such as the marguerite). They are all, by definition sexist, but you are allowed under UK law to be such when deciding who to invite to a party. What would be interesting, is if one became a monopoly in its niche (often clubs have a _thing_), whether one could argue they missed out on serious opportunities in work because they were not allowed to join, but I don't know of such a case being risen.
- jl6 4y agoIndeed it was The Garrick about which Baroness Hale made something rather like that argument, noting that many of her male colleagues were members, perhaps implying that they enjoyed a networking opportunity that she had been denied: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/06/garrick-club-votes-to-continue-with-ban-on-women-members https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/06/garrick-club-v...
- tarentel 4y agoIf a club is truly private they can. ianal but I believe they have to be very specific about their membership criteria. Like you couldn't have criteria that permits anyone who isn't black it would have to be a lot more specific than just that.
- leephillips 4y agoYou can legally exclude on any basis if you’re running an actual private club. But if it smells like a public accommodation (a restaurant that you can patronize without being a member of the club, for example), then the prohibitions against exclusion on the basis of race, religion, etc. kick in.
- throwaway_4ever 4y agoDon't universities and workplaces have particular sex and race only clubs?
- vulcan01 4y agoKind of, but that's why (most of) them have a disclaimer similar to "We welcome people of all races/genders/[whatever characteristic the group is organized around." on their flyers.
- carabiner 4y agoSounds like you never went to college. Those clubs aren't allowed to discriminate, so you'll see a Jewish girl as an officer in an Asian students society, or a woman engineers club admitting men.
- jayofdoom 4y agoI am a former Mason. I left the lodge due to no longer complying with their requirement to believe in a higher power (God). To be explicit: Masonry used to be segregated into "Prince Hall" masonic halls (for non-white folks) and "normal" masonic halls. This split was ended, and now Prince Hall masonic halls are full masonic lodges, and membership is recognized in both directions. In practice; every lodge I ever attended was integrated even if it was a significant white majority. When we were voting on new members, it was a silent vote with unanimous consent required. Any vote could be retaken at the order of the master. This means that if someone is eligible and should be a mason, and the vote comes up with a negative vote, the master can say a few words suggesting people reconsider and take the vote up again. There was only once that I saw someone not pass the first ballot to become a mason. The master said that we should reconsider, and most of the brothers in the room chose not to vote the second time (as a symbol they were not the negative vote), and many of those who did showed their ballot before casting it. The second vote passed. This as a process indicates there's plenty of room for abuse: any single master mason can anonymously vote to exclude someone for any reason they want. It's up to the folks around them to set them square if they are out of line. I can easily see an lodge existing where there wouldn't be any members willing to speak up in someone's defense. It's my belief that none of what I've posted here is exposing any of the secrets of a master mason; but if any fraternal members disagree I'll happily edit and delete this post, and I don't intend to expose anything; but instead demonstrate that masonry (as well as, I'd assume, most other 'secret' societies), is as good as the members in the lodge.
- InCityDreams 4y agoYou dont have to believe in God. Segregation (PHL) is a US only thing. You were correct to leave. That voting system was not Masonic and I've never seen it anywhere else, and nor do i believe it would be tolerated anywhere else. Please dont edit or delete your post.
- lakkal 4y agoDuring my time as a Mason (I left for much the same reason as jayofdoom), we followed the same procedure when voting for new members. The couple of times there was a non-unanimous vote, the Master called for another vote, in case anyone made a mistake or wanted to reconsider. In none of the cases did anyone make a show of not voting or showing their votes, though. I think it only happened twice in the 12 or so years I was there. I have no idea why someone rejected one of the candidates; and in the other, I suspect some of our members thought the candidate wanted to join because he thought it would help him with a political career (this is purely speculation; we didn't discuss this at all).
- gnopgnip 4y agoIt is legal for private clubs that do not offer services to the public to discriminate based on race, sex, national origin etc. Butler National, Preston Trail, Burning Tree Club are examples of male only golf clubs/courses.
- ss108 4y agoWell, they're not that secret apparently
- bena 4y agoI get the joke, but I don't think the existence of the society itself is supposed to be a secret, but what happens within the confines is held to secrecy.
- wl 4y agoThe secret society vs. society with secrets distinction is what Anglo-American Freemasonry has historically highlighted to disclaim the label "secret society." Agree with it or not, that usage does have some currency.
- dan-robertson 4y agoI think it’s the existence / private activities that are secret rather than the mere existence. But perhaps it’s just another meaning of secret, eg the ‘secret archives’ at the Vatican would better be described as ‘private archives’ as laypeople may enter and be given access to (some) records.
- smm11 4y agoThere's 9. I'm "blood brothers" with some kid who was five when I was, and his name escaped me decades ago. Nobody is to ever know this, so I guess I just broke that oath.
- IncRnd 4y agoHey! That was me, you oathbreaker - your infidelity against the Art of Sworn Secrets contained in the Ark of Secrets will not go unpunished! By the powers invested in me as the Head Inquisitor of Occult Secrets I banish you from the Secret Society of Occult Blood Brothers of Hidden Blood Secrets which shall not be named! FOREVERMORE you are banished and may never enter the Secret Santorum of the Holy Lodge!
- kbelder 4y agoI remember when I was a young, another kid showed me how to do a magic trick, making a toothpick bounce without touching it. I had to promise to never explain the trick to a girl. So far, that's been a pretty easy oath to keep.
- billybuckwheat 4y agoIsn't the whole idea behind a secret society that the general public doesn't know about it? I thought that's what secret meant.
- galaxyLogic 4y ago"Secret" means there is less supply of information. And when there is less supply but same demand, it means the price goes up. Isn't that a bit like Non-Fungible Tokens?
- gjsman-1000 4y agoOne of the most fundamental characteristics of evil is that the evil person cannot help but desire to gain fame for their crimes. (Just look up how many criminals have been arrested by their social media posts.) A Secret Society might be completely secretive, and yet be unable to resist helping themselves to claiming some credit. Kind of like the Anonymous hacker group in their day. Or Ross Ulbricht adopting the name "Dread Pirate Roberts" on all of his work which really hurt him when he was caught.
- IncRnd 4y agoIt's a real jump to go from "secret society" to "evil criminals".
- RutgerHauer 4y agoit's a real jump to go from "criminal" to "evil"
- IncRnd 4y agoSomeone didn't read before commenting.
- nkzd 4y agoThat's very interesting. Makes you wonder how many criminals escaped justice because they had a willpower to resist temptation of fame.
- leephillips 4y agoNo Turtles? Lame.
- IncRnd 4y ago> Eight Secret Societies You Might Not Know They aren't secret anymore - not when they are in the Smithsonian!
- gjsman-1000 4y agoYeah - the real Secret Societies are actually Secret and probably operating in our world all the time without displaying it. There's no evidence, just because you don't see Secret Societies much anymore, that they don't exist. There was a lack of evidence at the time for all the societies on the list.
- riffic 4y agobtw the password to their secret ceremonies is 'fidelio'
- kirbys-memeteam 4y agoThat is the reference password, yes. What is the secret password?
- IncRnd 4y agoIt's a secret, but I'll tell you if you keep it between the two of us. The secret password is "Leonore" without quotes - so don't do any air quotes when you offer the secret password for most illustrious entrances.
- c7b 4y agoNice that they found a mix, I expected >90% of them to be religious or semi-religious (what you hear about the freemasons sounds quite cult-ish too, eg). But not sure why they decided to include the Molly Maguires. Sounds like a plain mob to me, the Yakuzas and the Cosa Nostra probably have more rituals than those, and both are still very much in existence.
- silisili 4y agoI think there's a strong correlation. For example, there was an Oddfellows chapter near me I checked out a few times. They turned out to be some weird sect of Wiccans. I mean, it's nice that they do good works, and I guess alls as well if they keep them separate, but I didn't intend spending time with people who pray to antlers and host nude religious gatherings. And it felt to me, perhaps in a way, they were using a known organization to 'recruit', even if they didn't see it that way.
- RutgerHauer 4y agoWhere is this? Are they still recruiting?
- TigeriusKirk 4y agoI have never heard of Oddfellows doing such things, but now I'm really curious to find out more.
- silisili 4y agoI didn't mean to imply all Oddfellows do that, just the correlation between the people who join or start 'secret' societies and religion. IIRC, the one I'm referring to was a dead chapter that a few people offered to take over, something to that extent.
- charles_kaw 4y agoSecret societies have an air of mystique around them, but often they're just social clubs with extra steps. People are social creatures, and having something to belong to is healthy for most!
- BuyMyBitcoins 4y agoThose are the fake secret societies the real ones make in order to make you think they’re all just glorified social clubs. /s
- colordrops 4y agoWhy the sarcasm marker? Powerful secret societies have existed throughout history and there's no reason to believe they've stopped now.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Animats 4y agoThere have been real secret organizations, but they tend to be more like terrorist groups. The League of Free Jurists, the Irgun, etc. Ones that work as lobbies have to have some visibility. You can't stay completely behind the scenes forever and accomplish much. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce is arguably one such. Its existence is not a secret, but its 1970s plan to make the US more friendly to corporations didn't become known until it had already worked.
- xhevahir 4y agoLeonard Leo, who's had more influence over the selection of Supreme Court Justices than just about anyone, belongs to a Catholic secret society. It's not silliness or paranoia to worry about groups like these.
- xhevahir 4y agoReplying to add that just last week the Pope dissolved the leadership of this particular group (the Sovereign Military Order of Malta) and announced major reforms to it. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pope-dissolves-knights-malta-leadership-issues-new-constitution-2022-09-03/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pope-dissolves-knights-...
- riffic 4y agoDidn't see The Ancient Order of Free Gardeners listed: > Although the Free Gardeners have always remained independent of Freemasonry, the history and organisation of the two orders show numerous similarities. Some commentators have pointed to possible mutual influences in the ancient history of the two organisations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Free_Gardeners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Free_Gardeners
- westcort 4y agoI was once tapped to be part of a secret society. It was an interesting experience, but in the end I did not join.
- JudgePenitent 4y agoAye. I was at my friend's grandparent's house (he grew up in his grandparents house) as a youth, probably 11 or 12, and his grandfather mentioned he was offered to join the masons by a work buddy. He promptly told us he did not join. Few are called, even fewer accept the call.
- kelseyfrog 4y agoSome good ones to be sure, but they are leaving out a lot of the really juicy ones.
- TakeBlaster16 4y agoI had the same thought. I guess you and I are talking about the same Order? If so, I'll see you tomorrow evening!
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- dhosek 4y agoLast month, I had that moment every parent¹ dreams of. My daughter asked me, “what’s ‘the Illuminati’?” It was fun explaining the whole concept of secret societies and conspiracy theories in terms that would be intelligible to an 8-year-old. My kids (her brother is her twin) had a hard idea with the whole concept of secretly coercing somebody to do something that’s not in their interests.
- ttctciyf 4y agoWait till they find out about the parental concept of secretly coercing somebody to do something that is in their interests!
- pyinstallwoes 4y agoThen how anytime you feel you made a decision it was actually the Illuminati that coerced you into that decision making you believe you came up with it yourself.
- mellavora 4y agoOh, man what a perfect opportunity! Why explain when you can play. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati_(game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati_(game) www.sjgames.com
- dhosek 4y agoHmm, half of what I told them was derived from the game (and The Illuminatus! Trilogy). I think they might be just old enough to play the game (I’ll have to check for any cards I might need to hold back though).
- oq_computer 4y ago'The Power of Ritual in Prehistory: Secret Societies and Origins of Social Complexity' by Brian Hayden is a super interesting read on the origin of secret societies. Apparently there has always been a dynamic in communities that whenever there is a production surplus (according to the author happens in 'transegalitarian societies'), there tends to be a very small number of individuals that feel entitled to the surplus so they start to create multiple secret society startups with rituals and initiation practices often involving a high initiation cost to eventually centralize power (and publicly punish skeptics when possible). Another characteristic about secret societies is that actually they need to be very public (to get new members), and what is a secret instead is the reason why the society exists, that part is not revealed unless becoming part of the group.
- JeremiahSand 4y agoCame here to post about Hayden's thesis and you had beaten me to it. If anyone's interested in a podcast intro there's a good one here: https://auticulture.com/the-liminalist-223-the-arrival-of-the-aggrandizers-with-brian-hayden/ https://auticulture.com/the-liminalist-223-the-arrival-of-th...
- galaxyLogic 4y ago> hey need to be very public (to get new members), and what is a secret instead is the reason why the society exists Isn't that like Scientology, I've read you must spend a lot of money and time to get read in to their secrets.
- chris_wot 4y agoThis is an interesting headline. I would imagine there are quite a few secret societies we don't know about because they are, well, secret.
- ankaAr 4y agoI will add the Lautaro Lodge, known before as Lodge of Rational Knights, from where the revolutionary movements to free Latin American territory from Spain started.
- bovermyer 4y agoI'm a Freemason. I haven't been to a lodge meeting in quite awhile, but there are a few observations I think worth making: * "Secret societies" have an air of mystique about them, and that played no small part in my joining. The theatricality of some rituals gives a sense of gravitas to the group that is often lacking in everyday life. * Freemasonry at least does a lot of quiet charity. There is a not-insignificant amount of money they give to help people out, and they do very little publicity of this. In fact... I'd wager you haven't heard of Freemasons doing anything at all in a long time, if ever. * The perceived exclusivity of membership in a society like this is often portrayed as conducive to arrogance in its members in popular media, but every single Mason I've ever met is extraordinarily humble. * It's an unfortunate reality that most societies like this are gender-specific. * Freemasonry is theistic, rather than explicitly Christian. Interestingly, the Catholic church _hates_ Freemasonry, for some reason.
- jrm4 4y agoLast point, I believe that's why the "Knights of Columbus" exist?
- leashless 4y agoIn France, where their attitude to adultery is rather relaxed, Freemasonry is often a coed activity. Hiding affairs under a seal of masonic secrecy would be dangerous business in America.
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- YeBanKo 4y agoWhat do you get from it? (Not in a materialistic sense)
- bovermyer 4y ago
- ransom1538 4y agoIf you are ever in SF and want a good 30 seconds of fun, head over to Post and Taylor street. There is a large door there. Just open it. You will see a 6ft metal OWL "Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" - just walk around someone will be with you shortly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Club
- Storeblog 4y ago[dead]
- Raziarazzi 4y agoSecret societies have a mysterious aura surrounding them, but they are often just social clubs with extra steps.
- fizzpack 4y agoThe Orange Order is a religious hate group who burn effigies of Catholic and Irish "enemies" on two story high bonfires every year. This article glosses over who they really are entirely.
- forgotusername6 4y agoMost of the UK also burns effigies of a person (a Catholic domestic terrorist in this case) on bon fires every year.
- fizzpack 4y agoI'm talking about currently living people not some historical figure who tried to blow up government buildings. Political rivals. Irish flags burning, hell even EU flags and Palestinian flags. They're professional hate trolls. It's fairly sad to see but let's call a spade a spade here. The majority of the nice people of the UK don't follow or even understand them. I haven't even mentioned their parades. Ireland has similar groups but they're tiny and mostly ignored.
- galaxyLogic 4y agoGame-theoretically I think it is clear that members of a secret society have an advantage over individuals who are not part of the society, and who don't know that the other people they are interacting with are. Think about a game of Poker where the members of the society gave each other nodes and winks about their hand.