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Apparently, when I was little, I got excited one Christmas when the Queen’s speech was on tv, because I thought it was my Grandmother… I used to take comfort i

by Nursie 4y ago

Apparently, when I was little, I got excited one Christmas when the Queen’s speech was on tv, because I thought it was my Grandmother… I used to take comfort in the idea that all things pass in time, now not so much. Probably because I realised that includes everyone I love, and myself! I’ve no great love for the monarchy, but this is certainly the end of an era in British public life and likely in UK international relations - I can’t see the commonwealth nations welcoming King Charles as their new head of state. And it is weird, there are some things you just never expect to change. I’m hardly a spring chicken, but Queen Elizabeth was not only there my entire life, but Queen far enough into the past before I was born to have interacted with historical figures (like Churchill).

voisin 4y ago
> I can’t see the commonwealth nations welcoming King Charles as their new head of state. Well this is precisely what is about to happen. There may be some hand wringing articles in major newspapers about whether the Royal head of state is still relevant, appropriate, blah blah blah, but there is approximately zero chance that anything will change in reaction to this news.
- Nursie 4y ago
  Immediately? Perhaps not, but I think we’ll see a bunch of countries breaking away from having the British monarch as their head of state in the next few years. I’m pretty sure that (for instance) Australia was just hanging on until we could be sure she was gone, the current government have already planned a referendum on it in a few years if they get a second term. (I say ‘we’, I am a relatively recent British migrant, and not a citizen yet)
  - marcus_holmes 4y ago
    There's a common understanding amongst Aussies (or at least, the Aussies that I know) that we were waiting for Liz to die before getting on with becoming a republic. For 2 reasons: 1. There was a sense of loyalty to Liz personally. She did a good job of Queening and it seemed almost rude to interrupt that. 2. No-one wants Charles as king. He's very weird, and has ideas that he actually wants to do things with. I fully expect the referendum to be brought forward because of her death, and for it to get a strong "yes".
- erehweb 4y ago
  You may speak too soon. From https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/08/queen-death-cash-stamps-flags https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/08/queen-death-... "In many [Commonwealth countries] constitutions state that the Queen, specifically, is the head of state. In these countries, constitutions will need to be amended to refer to her successor. In countries such as Jamaica, where there is a strong independence movement, and Belize, these constitutional changes will also require a referendum, according to Commonwealth experts. This is expected to bring about a moment of political peril for the new monarch, who, after Barbados became independent in 2021, could face the loss of another prominent part of the Caribbean Commonwealth."
  - stormbrew 4y ago
    This is surprising tbh. When they changed the act of succession to remove default male succession, part of that was negotiating changes in succession acts around the Commonwealth. This implies that some or even most of those are unconstitutional? Weird. Anyways, it would be more surprising if the Commonwealth didn't lose a couple now and if a couple more didn't make plans for when Charles dies, which won't be all that long from now. I wish Canada was one of those, but all I'm reasonably hoping for is that we drop monarch icons on our cash.
    - badcppdev 4y ago
      The Commonwealth is not the list of countries that had QEII as their head of state. If you check the summary here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations you can read about it. That article has even been updated in the last 3 hours.
      - stormbrew 4y ago
        I am aware of that and did not say otherwise. I can see how you might have read that into what I said (as if I had said "across all") but my intention was across the countries in the Commonwealth that do share a monarch with the UK. Unless you're saying there are countries not in the Commonwealth that have her as the head of state which is news to me, but maybe i am mistaken.
- wvenable 4y ago
  In Canada, it would require changing the constitution and will open the floodgates for more changes. It was hard enough to do that once.
spaceman_2020 4y ago
What is the sentiment like in the UK about Charles vs William? Heard lots of people calling for him to just hand it over to William straight away.
- Nursie 4y ago
  I left the UK a year or so back and have been pretty anti-monarchist for as long as I can remember, so am probably not the best person to ask about the public mood on succession! I think there are probably a lot of people like me who, while anti monarchy in general, were not particularly anti-Elizabeth. However now that she’s passed I would quite like the whole thing to be further de-emphasised, de-legitimised and removed from any remaining levers of power, however ceremonial or theoretical, and any remaining state subsidy, palaces and lands to be taken into public ownership etc etc. How many are of these opinions I am unsure.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    > levers of power, however ceremonial or theoretical, Less theoretical than many seem to think: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/08/royals-vetted-more-than-1000-laws-via-queens-consent https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/08/royals-vette... They do this in secret, to preserve the illusion.
    - BLO716 4y ago
      Not necessarily a bad thing, TBH. Think of it like our Senate in the US. The Senate is a longer view, while the House is the shorter populous public-opinion. Not sure of the Parliamentary influences, but someone who was as respected and revered in an status where one COULD get the longest view on staff (so to say) - why not?
      - MichaelCollins 4y ago
        The Senate doesn't pretend they're powerless figureheads who exist for tourism while exercising power in secret.
unmole 4y ago
> UK international relations Yeah, no. Countries don't care about who is on the throne. They nod along to the British monarchy because they value diplomatic relations with Britain. Just like how they put up with Trump's children. > I can’t see the commonwealth nations welcoming King Charles as their new head of state. If you meant the Commonwealth of Nations, Charles was confirmed as the successor in CHOGM 2018. If you meant Commonwealth Realms, their close economic and military ties to Britain are not going to change anyways. I get that this is an emotional loss to Britain. But let's not pretend there's going to be a material difference.

by Nursie 4y ago

voisin 4y ago

> I can’t see the commonwealth nations welcoming King Charles as their new head of state. Well this is precisely what is about to happen. There may be some hand wringing articles in major newspapers about whether the Royal head of state is still relevant, appropriate, blah blah blah, but there is approximately zero chance that anything will change in reaction to this news.

Nursie 4y ago
Immediately? Perhaps not, but I think we’ll see a bunch of countries breaking away from having the British monarch as their head of state in the next few years. I’m pretty sure that (for instance) Australia was just hanging on until we could be sure she was gone, the current government have already planned a referendum on it in a few years if they get a second term. (I say ‘we’, I am a relatively recent British migrant, and not a citizen yet)
- marcus_holmes 4y ago
  There's a common understanding amongst Aussies (or at least, the Aussies that I know) that we were waiting for Liz to die before getting on with becoming a republic. For 2 reasons: 1. There was a sense of loyalty to Liz personally. She did a good job of Queening and it seemed almost rude to interrupt that. 2. No-one wants Charles as king. He's very weird, and has ideas that he actually wants to do things with. I fully expect the referendum to be brought forward because of her death, and for it to get a strong "yes".
erehweb 4y ago
You may speak too soon. From https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/08/queen-death-cash-stamps-flags https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/08/queen-death-... "In many [Commonwealth countries] constitutions state that the Queen, specifically, is the head of state. In these countries, constitutions will need to be amended to refer to her successor. In countries such as Jamaica, where there is a strong independence movement, and Belize, these constitutional changes will also require a referendum, according to Commonwealth experts. This is expected to bring about a moment of political peril for the new monarch, who, after Barbados became independent in 2021, could face the loss of another prominent part of the Caribbean Commonwealth."
- stormbrew 4y ago
  This is surprising tbh. When they changed the act of succession to remove default male succession, part of that was negotiating changes in succession acts around the Commonwealth. This implies that some or even most of those are unconstitutional? Weird. Anyways, it would be more surprising if the Commonwealth didn't lose a couple now and if a couple more didn't make plans for when Charles dies, which won't be all that long from now. I wish Canada was one of those, but all I'm reasonably hoping for is that we drop monarch icons on our cash.
  - badcppdev 4y ago
    The Commonwealth is not the list of countries that had QEII as their head of state. If you check the summary here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations you can read about it. That article has even been updated in the last 3 hours.
    - stormbrew 4y ago
      I am aware of that and did not say otherwise. I can see how you might have read that into what I said (as if I had said "across all") but my intention was across the countries in the Commonwealth that do share a monarch with the UK. Unless you're saying there are countries not in the Commonwealth that have her as the head of state which is news to me, but maybe i am mistaken.
wvenable 4y ago
In Canada, it would require changing the constitution and will open the floodgates for more changes. It was hard enough to do that once.

spaceman_2020 4y ago

What is the sentiment like in the UK about Charles vs William? Heard lots of people calling for him to just hand it over to William straight away.

Nursie 4y ago
I left the UK a year or so back and have been pretty anti-monarchist for as long as I can remember, so am probably not the best person to ask about the public mood on succession! I think there are probably a lot of people like me who, while anti monarchy in general, were not particularly anti-Elizabeth. However now that she’s passed I would quite like the whole thing to be further de-emphasised, de-legitimised and removed from any remaining levers of power, however ceremonial or theoretical, and any remaining state subsidy, palaces and lands to be taken into public ownership etc etc. How many are of these opinions I am unsure.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  > levers of power, however ceremonial or theoretical, Less theoretical than many seem to think: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/08/royals-vetted-more-than-1000-laws-via-queens-consent https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/08/royals-vette... They do this in secret, to preserve the illusion.
  - BLO716 4y ago
    Not necessarily a bad thing, TBH. Think of it like our Senate in the US. The Senate is a longer view, while the House is the shorter populous public-opinion. Not sure of the Parliamentary influences, but someone who was as respected and revered in an status where one COULD get the longest view on staff (so to say) - why not?
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
      The Senate doesn't pretend they're powerless figureheads who exist for tourism while exercising power in secret.

unmole 4y ago

> UK international relations Yeah, no. Countries don't care about who is on the throne. They nod along to the British monarchy because they value diplomatic relations with Britain. Just like how they put up with Trump's children. > I can’t see the commonwealth nations welcoming King Charles as their new head of state. If you meant the Commonwealth of Nations, Charles was confirmed as the successor in CHOGM 2018. If you meant Commonwealth Realms, their close economic and military ties to Britain are not going to change anyways. I get that this is an emotional loss to Britain. But let's not pretend there's going to be a material difference.