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> Windows isn't heroin, people don't need interventions off of it. This is exactly what someone who is addicted to Windows would say. I bought a Woot special

by yebyen 4y ago

> Windows isn't heroin, people don't need interventions off of it. This is exactly what someone who is addicted to Windows would say. I bought a Woot special laptop a few weeks ago and I was absolutely floored to see the number of ads in the default installation of Windows! (Not really, I've been randomly wandering back to Windows a few times over the last 20 years, and I'm mostly desensitized to it by now, but I still notice) It came with Windows on it, and it came with thermal issues. As soon as I had it running for more than 10-20 minutes, the CPU (an 8-core) would top out at about 12%, limping along on a single core's worth, with no other visible indication of any problems. I tried everything I could think of, including a new application of thermal paste on all the internal components, and basically everything short of sending it back all to no avail. But then I thought to install Linux... which actually allows the CPU to idle when you're not trying to do anything, and if there still remains any thermal problem, well, it's frankly undetectable to me while running Linux. This is an anecdote, but I bought this laptop for my wife, (with Windows on it, on purpose, as I knew that's what she'd want) as a replacement for a more expensive laptop (which is not that old and also runs Windows, but is already "aging" (WTF?)) and it already feels like a piece of trash, until I remove the "virus." I'm already Mr. Tech Support, there's no escaping it. The best practice to me is not to run spyware on your computer. This is something I'll be doing to empower her. She is a biologist and and ecologist, and she already started learning Git on her own to collab better with more HPC-focused data-science people. (I'm very proud of her, if that's not already obviously oozing out.)

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>This is exactly what someone who is addicted to Windows would say. This is exactly what a GNU/Neckbeard would say. Addiction to an OS? Come on. It's not crack cocaine and it's not tik-tok. It's a tool that let's people do work and fun. I'm a huge Linux nerd myself but computing for most people is best when it involves the least amount of friction and zero learning curve. I tried migrating people to linux and it rarely went well: "Oh yea, now we can't read your external HDD because that's NTFS and Linux kernel doesn't have drivers for that yet, we can add them manually", "Oh yeah, that tearing you see is because you need to enable tear-free in the config file, haha, don't worry, it will be smooth like Windows when we finally switch to Wayland"; "Oh yeah, your laptop's fans now scream when watching YouTube because Chrome doesn't have GPU acceleration by default enabled and your laptop has an Nvidia chip who's drivers don't play well with linux but don't worry, that's not Linux's fault, that's Google's and Nvidia's fault haha. The fix is quite simple you see, we just go in Chrome config flags and then to the Arch wiki and modify these command line inputs to ..."
- yebyen 4y ago
  > What if the lady actually enjoys the thing, then let her enjoy the thing. She doesn't, that was where we started. She knows (thinks) she has to use it, but the things she is doing can all be done on Linux, and she is only ever complaining about the computer. RStudio Cloud works just as well on Linux. What do you call it when someone has a thing they do every day for many years, in spite of the obvious drawbacks, knowing that there are well-trodden alternatives, and without ever having seriously considered trying the other options? If it's not "real addiction," then it's definitely another word which I'd associate with unhealthy behavior. I've been a computer people forever. I bought a $500 machine that is perfectly good, and there's no reason for me to send it back just because Windows seems to have an issue. It's less than 3 years old from the manufacturer, refurbished. There should be no problem, and without Windows there is no problem. But we get people with replies like this: > get her the best windows laptop you can afford, make sure it's secured properly with updates and such and that it "just works" $500 is plenty. Why should I spend more than that on a laptop? (Hell, they gave me back $75 just to try applying the thermal grease myself, if I can save that kind of money by being resourceful, I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna show as many people as I can that they can do it too.) By the way, I should have definitely laughed at GNU/Neckbeard. That one is going in my pocket for later... LOLOL
  - srk_hn 4y ago
    I would cal it valuing my time. I don't want to spend an hour or two a day learning something new when I've already invested in learning something that solves my problems good enough. Can I have gripes about the quirks and how some things could be better? Sure. Is it worth throwing the baby with the bathwater and learning something entirely new? Highly unlikely.
    - yebyen 4y ago
      > I don't want to spend an hour or two a day learning something new when I've already invested in learning something that solves my problems good enough. This is exactly how I felt after about 20 years of using Linux since the age of 14. Windows 7? 8? 10? 11? No thanks, I don't want to learn it, I've already had 3.11, 95, 98, 2000, XP, I enjoyed it throughout my childhood, (and then I became a man and put away childish things.) That's plenty of time for me to consider whether I really want to leave Windows or not, and I don't regret switching to Debian, it does basically everything I need. 20 years later, I've had lots of time to think about it, and I'm definitely still a Linux user. (And a Mac user... anything but Windows really.)
superchroma 4y ago
I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying that it's the wrong conversation to be having for a harmonious relationship built on mutual respect. The right conversation focuses on her needs and pain points, and a suggestion for a Linux alternative that could help would be one option on the table. If she goes with Linux, and she might, then that's good, but, she may not, and she has a right to that choice too. Imagine how obnoxious your position would be if you were a vegan or keto dieter trying to wean her off meat or carbs?
- yebyen 4y ago
  > Imagine how obnoxious your position would be if you were a vegan or keto dieter trying to wean her off meat or carbs? Funny, she is the vegetarian/keto and I'm for sure the one who's overweight. Maybe she should try this with me! I'm not saying anyone must run Linux, but I am saying that people are resistant to change until you show them how easy it is, and what all they do have to gain. And maybe it's not so easy, and maybe you're right. Not all things are for all people, some people might genuinely need some Windows software. But if you're a person who is interested in Open Source and using programming languages, you could do much worse than a Linux install (and I'd argue that Windows is squarely in the "much worse" bucket.) Maybe OP's wife is not that person (my wife definitely is).
- blendergeek 4y ago
  > Imagine how obnoxious your position would be if you were a vegan or keto dieter trying to wean her off meat or carbs? If someone was "weaning me off meat" by feeding me Impossible Burgers, I'd be all in.
  - yebyen 4y ago
    Yeah seriously give me all the impossible whoppers. I'm all in for whopper wednesday... those things are legit!
rejectfinite 4y ago
Task manager? Resource monitor? Something installed like Process Explorer? You can easily see CPU usage in Windows. The ads are terrible and the settings need some configuration for me too but thats a one time configuration.
- yebyen 4y ago
  Listen, I checked out Task Manager and Resource Monitor, and I can easily see that the CPU usage maxes out at 12% and never goes over that limit except after a cold boot, and then only for a few minutes. I thought it was definitely some internal hardware throttling due to a thermal issue, but then it would have to affect the Linux OS as well, wouldn't it?
  - rejectfinite 4y ago
    That does sound strange. Might be some weird laptop/driver shit. My desktop is built and the only Windows laptop I use is a corperate one with a custom Windows image from IT. But Windows "walmart" style laptops for home use have always been kinda sus due to all the bloatware on them. Might have needed a clean Windows reinstall.
    - yebyen 4y ago
      Or maybe I'd install Windows again and find it does the same thing it does before. shrug I'd love to say it's working well for her, but we haven't really gone all the way down this road, I know it will work to use Linux, but it still sits on the shelf and she's still dealing with Windows, (on the more expensive slightly older laptop which also has problems.)

by yebyen 4y ago

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

>This is exactly what someone who is addicted to Windows would say. This is exactly what a GNU/Neckbeard would say. Addiction to an OS? Come on. It's not crack cocaine and it's not tik-tok. It's a tool that let's people do work and fun. I'm a huge Linux nerd myself but computing for most people is best when it involves the least amount of friction and zero learning curve. I tried migrating people to linux and it rarely went well: "Oh yea, now we can't read your external HDD because that's NTFS and Linux kernel doesn't have drivers for that yet, we can add them manually", "Oh yeah, that tearing you see is because you need to enable tear-free in the config file, haha, don't worry, it will be smooth like Windows when we finally switch to Wayland"; "Oh yeah, your laptop's fans now scream when watching YouTube because Chrome doesn't have GPU acceleration by default enabled and your laptop has an Nvidia chip who's drivers don't play well with linux but don't worry, that's not Linux's fault, that's Google's and Nvidia's fault haha. The fix is quite simple you see, we just go in Chrome config flags and then to the Arch wiki and modify these command line inputs to ..."

yebyen 4y ago
> What if the lady actually enjoys the thing, then let her enjoy the thing. She doesn't, that was where we started. She knows (thinks) she has to use it, but the things she is doing can all be done on Linux, and she is only ever complaining about the computer. RStudio Cloud works just as well on Linux. What do you call it when someone has a thing they do every day for many years, in spite of the obvious drawbacks, knowing that there are well-trodden alternatives, and without ever having seriously considered trying the other options? If it's not "real addiction," then it's definitely another word which I'd associate with unhealthy behavior. I've been a computer people forever. I bought a $500 machine that is perfectly good, and there's no reason for me to send it back just because Windows seems to have an issue. It's less than 3 years old from the manufacturer, refurbished. There should be no problem, and without Windows there is no problem. But we get people with replies like this: > get her the best windows laptop you can afford, make sure it's secured properly with updates and such and that it "just works" $500 is plenty. Why should I spend more than that on a laptop? (Hell, they gave me back $75 just to try applying the thermal grease myself, if I can save that kind of money by being resourceful, I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna show as many people as I can that they can do it too.) By the way, I should have definitely laughed at GNU/Neckbeard. That one is going in my pocket for later... LOLOL
- srk_hn 4y ago
  I would cal it valuing my time. I don't want to spend an hour or two a day learning something new when I've already invested in learning something that solves my problems good enough. Can I have gripes about the quirks and how some things could be better? Sure. Is it worth throwing the baby with the bathwater and learning something entirely new? Highly unlikely.
  - yebyen 4y ago
    > I don't want to spend an hour or two a day learning something new when I've already invested in learning something that solves my problems good enough. This is exactly how I felt after about 20 years of using Linux since the age of 14. Windows 7? 8? 10? 11? No thanks, I don't want to learn it, I've already had 3.11, 95, 98, 2000, XP, I enjoyed it throughout my childhood, (and then I became a man and put away childish things.) That's plenty of time for me to consider whether I really want to leave Windows or not, and I don't regret switching to Debian, it does basically everything I need. 20 years later, I've had lots of time to think about it, and I'm definitely still a Linux user. (And a Mac user... anything but Windows really.)

superchroma 4y ago

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying that it's the wrong conversation to be having for a harmonious relationship built on mutual respect. The right conversation focuses on her needs and pain points, and a suggestion for a Linux alternative that could help would be one option on the table. If she goes with Linux, and she might, then that's good, but, she may not, and she has a right to that choice too. Imagine how obnoxious your position would be if you were a vegan or keto dieter trying to wean her off meat or carbs?

yebyen 4y ago
> Imagine how obnoxious your position would be if you were a vegan or keto dieter trying to wean her off meat or carbs? Funny, she is the vegetarian/keto and I'm for sure the one who's overweight. Maybe she should try this with me! I'm not saying anyone must run Linux, but I am saying that people are resistant to change until you show them how easy it is, and what all they do have to gain. And maybe it's not so easy, and maybe you're right. Not all things are for all people, some people might genuinely need some Windows software. But if you're a person who is interested in Open Source and using programming languages, you could do much worse than a Linux install (and I'd argue that Windows is squarely in the "much worse" bucket.) Maybe OP's wife is not that person (my wife definitely is).
blendergeek 4y ago
> Imagine how obnoxious your position would be if you were a vegan or keto dieter trying to wean her off meat or carbs? If someone was "weaning me off meat" by feeding me Impossible Burgers, I'd be all in.
- yebyen 4y ago
  Yeah seriously give me all the impossible whoppers. I'm all in for whopper wednesday... those things are legit!

rejectfinite 4y ago

Task manager? Resource monitor? Something installed like Process Explorer? You can easily see CPU usage in Windows. The ads are terrible and the settings need some configuration for me too but thats a one time configuration.

yebyen 4y ago
Listen, I checked out Task Manager and Resource Monitor, and I can easily see that the CPU usage maxes out at 12% and never goes over that limit except after a cold boot, and then only for a few minutes. I thought it was definitely some internal hardware throttling due to a thermal issue, but then it would have to affect the Linux OS as well, wouldn't it?
- rejectfinite 4y ago
  That does sound strange. Might be some weird laptop/driver shit. My desktop is built and the only Windows laptop I use is a corperate one with a custom Windows image from IT. But Windows "walmart" style laptops for home use have always been kinda sus due to all the bloatware on them. Might have needed a clean Windows reinstall.
  - yebyen 4y ago
    Or maybe I'd install Windows again and find it does the same thing it does before. shrug I'd love to say it's working well for her, but we haven't really gone all the way down this road, I know it will work to use Linux, but it still sits on the shelf and she's still dealing with Windows, (on the more expensive slightly older laptop which also has problems.)