7 ms·

It's interesting watching the difference in how transit is treated by officials between NYC (where I lived last year) and Berlin (where I live this year). In N

by aqme28 4y ago

It's interesting watching the difference in how transit is treated by officials between NYC (where I lived last year) and Berlin (where I live this year). In NYC, we're ramping up enforcement and cracking down on fare jumping. In Berlin, it's the opposite-- less fare-enforcement and more subsidies for people to take the train. I really have a hard time seeing how NYC's strategy could be more effective. It's not even like it's cheap.

friendlyHornet 4y ago
I live in Dresden and can’t remember exactly what when the last time my ticket was checked in the bus or tram. IIRC last time was July and I ride the tram and bus daily But I always have my ticket with me; as another mentioned, there are undercover control checks that will surprise you
Semaphor 4y ago
I’ve been to Berlin once in the last 10 or so years. Took the bus. Had to pay with a 20€ bill. The driver looked at me as if I’m trying to hand him something poisonous and waved me through.
- nicbou 4y ago
  It got better. Now you can use Android pay in the buses and at train stations. The ticket app is decent too. Only the old machines in the tram remain. Those only take coins.
strato-cumulus 4y ago
It's true that Berlin public transit has no physical fare enforcement (e.g. there are no ticket gates at subway stations), but the state operator of public transit is anything but lax on fare dodgers: the tickets are being checked randomly by undercover ticket inspectors, and every so often there's news of an inspector being violent [0]. The reality with ticket inspectors stands in stark contrast to the witty and playful online identity maintained by the BVG. Additionally, repeated fare dodging is treated as fraud by the German law and repeated offences can land you in jail [1]. [0] https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/bvg-berlin-strassenbahn-kontrolleure-gewalt-1.5534458 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/bvg-berlin-strassenbahn... [1] https://taz.de/Haftstrafen-fuer-Schwarzfahren/!5529577/ https://taz.de/Haftstrafen-fuer-Schwarzfahren/!5529577/
- aqme28 4y ago
  Yes generally, but during this €9 fare summer, I haven’t seen any checks at all. They just assume you all paid for it.
runarberg 4y ago
You can add Seattle to your comparison. Fare enforcement is almost non-existing at the moment, and more and more groups are traveling for free. However transit quality is not nearly on the same level as in New York or Berlin.
codyb 4y ago
As much as maybe fare evasion is a secondary concern, I think the main reason they're cracking down on the subways in NYC is because people weren't feeling safe on the trains anymore. As much as I love a free and open and fair society, you can see why people not my size might be uncomfortable next to people growling, sleeping with trash bags filled with their belongings, drinking out of brown paper bags, rolling and smoking blunts and cigarettes. (I mostly bike these days but I saw all of that in recent subway trips during the early summer). And then there was the rash of incidents on the subway with people getting shot at stations, the guy who tried to set off a smoke bomb and pulled out a gun on the car and started shooting, the guy who smeared shit on someone's face, the people who've been pushed onto tracks. These incidents are _incredibly_ rare, but the way humans work doesn't let a lot of us shake off that perception of the subways being less safe than they used to be. I'm not one of those people, I base my fears on statistics, but you can't expect every human being, especially smaller people, the elderly, and women to be as carefree.
- googlryas 4y ago
  I see people jump the turnstiles all the time, and they're usually not the type that growl at you. Usually (at least in my area) it is young, teenage or early 20-something brown/black males who blend back into the crowd immediately. I agree the types of people you described are a problem, but they aren't the farejumpers.
  - stjohnswarts 4y ago
    lol brown/black males. Isn't that a bit passive aggressive version of racism hidden under "just pointing out what I noticed"? Is that because you are biased that you notice or is it the actual reality?
    - googlryas 4y ago
      Please expand on what was racist about my message. Was it where I said that fare jumpers just blended in with the crowd and didn't growl at people, and were not the problem makers that OP was describing? Was I also sexist in pointing out it is mostly males I see doing it?

by aqme28 4y ago

friendlyHornet 4y ago

I live in Dresden and can’t remember exactly what when the last time my ticket was checked in the bus or tram. IIRC last time was July and I ride the tram and bus daily But I always have my ticket with me; as another mentioned, there are undercover control checks that will surprise you

Semaphor 4y ago

I’ve been to Berlin once in the last 10 or so years. Took the bus. Had to pay with a 20€ bill. The driver looked at me as if I’m trying to hand him something poisonous and waved me through.

nicbou 4y ago
It got better. Now you can use Android pay in the buses and at train stations. The ticket app is decent too. Only the old machines in the tram remain. Those only take coins.

strato-cumulus 4y ago

It's true that Berlin public transit has no physical fare enforcement (e.g. there are no ticket gates at subway stations), but the state operator of public transit is anything but lax on fare dodgers: the tickets are being checked randomly by undercover ticket inspectors, and every so often there's news of an inspector being violent [0]. The reality with ticket inspectors stands in stark contrast to the witty and playful online identity maintained by the BVG. Additionally, repeated fare dodging is treated as fraud by the German law and repeated offences can land you in jail [1]. [0] https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/bvg-berlin-strassenbahn-kontrolleure-gewalt-1.5534458 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/bvg-berlin-strassenbahn... [1] https://taz.de/Haftstrafen-fuer-Schwarzfahren/!5529577/ https://taz.de/Haftstrafen-fuer-Schwarzfahren/!5529577/

aqme28 4y ago
Yes generally, but during this €9 fare summer, I haven’t seen any checks at all. They just assume you all paid for it.

runarberg 4y ago

You can add Seattle to your comparison. Fare enforcement is almost non-existing at the moment, and more and more groups are traveling for free. However transit quality is not nearly on the same level as in New York or Berlin.

codyb 4y ago

As much as maybe fare evasion is a secondary concern, I think the main reason they're cracking down on the subways in NYC is because people weren't feeling safe on the trains anymore. As much as I love a free and open and fair society, you can see why people not my size might be uncomfortable next to people growling, sleeping with trash bags filled with their belongings, drinking out of brown paper bags, rolling and smoking blunts and cigarettes. (I mostly bike these days but I saw all of that in recent subway trips during the early summer). And then there was the rash of incidents on the subway with people getting shot at stations, the guy who tried to set off a smoke bomb and pulled out a gun on the car and started shooting, the guy who smeared shit on someone's face, the people who've been pushed onto tracks. These incidents are _incredibly_ rare, but the way humans work doesn't let a lot of us shake off that perception of the subways being less safe than they used to be. I'm not one of those people, I base my fears on statistics, but you can't expect every human being, especially smaller people, the elderly, and women to be as carefree.

googlryas 4y ago
I see people jump the turnstiles all the time, and they're usually not the type that growl at you. Usually (at least in my area) it is young, teenage or early 20-something brown/black males who blend back into the crowd immediately. I agree the types of people you described are a problem, but they aren't the farejumpers.
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  lol brown/black males. Isn't that a bit passive aggressive version of racism hidden under "just pointing out what I noticed"? Is that because you are biased that you notice or is it the actual reality?
  - googlryas 4y ago
    Please expand on what was racist about my message. Was it where I said that fare jumpers just blended in with the crowd and didn't growl at people, and were not the problem makers that OP was describing? Was I also sexist in pointing out it is mostly males I see doing it?