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> I can send someone who has an android phone a text message. I can send them a photo, or a video. You can, and the quality of the photo/video on the other end

> I can send someone who has an android phone a text message. I can send them a photo, or a video. You can, and the quality of the photo/video on the other end is horrendous. It's artificially downgraded. Android doesn't have this problem when messaging any other platform, because all other platforms use RCS (an open standard), which Apple chooses not to adopt because they benefit from the lock-in. It also breaks all the other features that iMessage and RCS both provide. So no, it's not just about the color of the bubble: it actually is an interoperability issue. https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2022/08/13/google-apple-iphone-android-text-messaging/10317487002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2022/08/13/google-apple-...

ryukafalz 4y ago
> Android doesn't have this problem when messaging any other platform, because all other platforms use RCS I broadly agree with you about this being an interoperability issue, but what other platforms besides Android use RCS?
jlokier 4y ago
My Android phone has occasionally prompted me about switching on enhanced messaging features, RCS, but to do so required agreeing to some Google T&Cs that I wasn't comfortable with, so I've consistently declined. RCS is a weird thing. It's supposed to be operated by carriers - but it's inconsistently supported by carriers, so Google provides the service. I'd rather not send photos and all my personal messages to Google. No, I don't use Gmail, and no I don't backup my Android phone to Google servers. SMS seems to have gone out of fashion for personal conversations, except when mobile signal is poor and SMS is the only thing that still works. So I don't particularly feel the enhanced features matter. Commercial SMS is still used a lot, but I probably prefer to _not_ have enhanced messaging from those anyway. Because of Apple's clearer privacy stance compared with Google, especially with Google being primarily an advertising and tracking company by revenue, I sometimes think I'd feel ok using Apple's services - if only iOS wasn't so limiting. But because of iOS limitations I pretty much have to use Android and live with the compromises. I am conflicted about this, because if iOS is forced to open up, it'll be more useful to me for some things, but also more of a cesspit of scam apps, and Google Chrome and related services will dominate the landscape more. Although everyone recognises Apple uses iMessage for "prestige" and lock-in, I think there are good reasons why even if Apple didn't care about its own benefits, and only wanted to protect users' pricacy, Apple should perhaps not go all-in on RCS in its current form. From Wikipedia about RCS: "Amnesty International researcher Joe Westby criticized RCS for not allowing end-to-end encryption, because it is treated as a service of carriers and thus subject to lawful interception. "The Verge criticized the inconsistent support of RCS in the United States, with carriers not supporting RCS in all markets, not certifying service on all phones, or not yet supporting the Universal Profile. Concerns were shown over Google's decision to run its own RCS service due to the possibility of antitrust scrutiny, but it was acknowledged that Google had to do so in order to bypass the carriers' inconsistent support of RCS, as it wanted to have a service more comparable to Apple's iMessage service available on Android. "Ars Technica also criticized Google's move to launch a direct-to-consumer RCS service, considering it a contradiction of RCS being native to the carrier to provide features reminiscent of messaging apps, counting it as being among various past and unsuccessful attempts by Google to develop an in-house messaging service (including Google Talk, Google+ Messenger, Hangouts, and Allo), and noting limitations: such as its dependencies on phone numbers as the identity (whereas email-based accounts are telco-agnostic), not being capable of being readily synchronized between multiple devices, and the aforementioned lack of end-to-end encryption.[8 In June 2021 Google introduced end-to-end encryption in Google Messages, an app supporting RCS. Encryption is supported only if two users are on Messages in a 1:1 chat (not group chat), both with RCS turned on."
pwinnski 4y ago
Right, the color the bubble is to remind us that features are missing, it's not a missing feature itself. RCS still doesn't support end-to-end encryption, and still requires carrier participation. There are still carriers that don't support it, and not all carriers support it equally. Google just managed to get the last major US carrier to adopt RCS this year so all of this about Apple being behind is marketing nonsense.

ryukafalz 4y ago

> Android doesn't have this problem when messaging any other platform, because all other platforms use RCS I broadly agree with you about this being an interoperability issue, but what other platforms besides Android use RCS?

jlokier 4y ago

My Android phone has occasionally prompted me about switching on enhanced messaging features, RCS, but to do so required agreeing to some Google T&Cs that I wasn't comfortable with, so I've consistently declined. RCS is a weird thing. It's supposed to be operated by carriers - but it's inconsistently supported by carriers, so Google provides the service. I'd rather not send photos and all my personal messages to Google. No, I don't use Gmail, and no I don't backup my Android phone to Google servers. SMS seems to have gone out of fashion for personal conversations, except when mobile signal is poor and SMS is the only thing that still works. So I don't particularly feel the enhanced features matter. Commercial SMS is still used a lot, but I probably prefer to _not_ have enhanced messaging from those anyway. Because of Apple's clearer privacy stance compared with Google, especially with Google being primarily an advertising and tracking company by revenue, I sometimes think I'd feel ok using Apple's services - if only iOS wasn't so limiting. But because of iOS limitations I pretty much have to use Android and live with the compromises. I am conflicted about this, because if iOS is forced to open up, it'll be more useful to me for some things, but also more of a cesspit of scam apps, and Google Chrome and related services will dominate the landscape more. Although everyone recognises Apple uses iMessage for "prestige" and lock-in, I think there are good reasons why even if Apple didn't care about its own benefits, and only wanted to protect users' pricacy, Apple should perhaps not go all-in on RCS in its current form. From Wikipedia about RCS: "Amnesty International researcher Joe Westby criticized RCS for not allowing end-to-end encryption, because it is treated as a service of carriers and thus subject to lawful interception. "The Verge criticized the inconsistent support of RCS in the United States, with carriers not supporting RCS in all markets, not certifying service on all phones, or not yet supporting the Universal Profile. Concerns were shown over Google's decision to run its own RCS service due to the possibility of antitrust scrutiny, but it was acknowledged that Google had to do so in order to bypass the carriers' inconsistent support of RCS, as it wanted to have a service more comparable to Apple's iMessage service available on Android. "Ars Technica also criticized Google's move to launch a direct-to-consumer RCS service, considering it a contradiction of RCS being native to the carrier to provide features reminiscent of messaging apps, counting it as being among various past and unsuccessful attempts by Google to develop an in-house messaging service (including Google Talk, Google+ Messenger, Hangouts, and Allo), and noting limitations: such as its dependencies on phone numbers as the identity (whereas email-based accounts are telco-agnostic), not being capable of being readily synchronized between multiple devices, and the aforementioned lack of end-to-end encryption.[8 In June 2021 Google introduced end-to-end encryption in Google Messages, an app supporting RCS. Encryption is supported only if two users are on Messages in a 1:1 chat (not group chat), both with RCS turned on."

pwinnski 4y ago

Right, the color the bubble is to remind us that features are missing, it's not a missing feature itself. RCS still doesn't support end-to-end encryption, and still requires carrier participation. There are still carriers that don't support it, and not all carriers support it equally. Google just managed to get the last major US carrier to adopt RCS this year so all of this about Apple being behind is marketing nonsense.