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Since when did Apple have any obligation to provide iMessage to Android users? 10 years ago? Now? I think Tim Cook is spot on here. Get an iPhone for your g

Since when did Apple have any obligation to provide iMessage to Android users? 10 years ago? Now? I think Tim Cook is spot on here. Get an iPhone for your grandma if she wants the user experience that iMessages provide. Otherwise, you can get her signal or snapchat or one of the 4,225 secure messaging ecosystems.

simonsarris 4y ago
I think if you comingle inventory (SMS messages and iMessages) and don't make that very clear to your users (Apple wants to do the opposite, to make it feel seamless), you have some obligation to not mess up the user experience on other people's devices. So I guess since then.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  How much more seam is needed than two different colors, and a label at the top of the chat window identifying the message protocol?
heavymark 4y ago
Grandma is probably more than happy with her familiar experience and rather the iphone son user who loves his iPhone but hates the limitations of having to send SMS essentially with his grandmother. So in this scenarios Tim saying son should by an android would make more sense as he’d be able to learn a new system easily than her presumably or them both having to use a separate less ideal app just to communicate with each other. If they both preferred signal or such they would use it but even in that case the rest of their friends and fam would still be using another app. So just get person an iphone isn’t realistic especially if some have to use one or the other since work pays for phone or such.
maxsilver 4y ago
> Since when did Apple have any obligation to provide iMessage to Android users? They don't. But that's not necessarily the complaint either. The argument is that they do have an obligation to not intentionally break the native cell service you paid for, which is exactly what they're doing by ignoring the RCS portion of modern LTE (GSMA) spec. It's got nothing to do with iMessage in truth. iMessage is simply how Apple has chosen to frame their excuse for intentionally breaking your cell service.
angryasian 4y ago
Since they are contributing to school bullying. not having a blue bubble shouldn't matter, but we forget how brutal school was.
- threatofrain 4y ago
  The color also refers to whether your messages are end to end encrypted, which is a big deal in messaging. Is the presence or absence of a padlock on browsers embarrassing? What if iMessage merely said “This message is not secured by encryption.”?
  - angryasian 4y ago
    They've released whats obtainable through imessages "encryption". If it was so important to Apple that their users privacy matters to them, they'd give people a way to cross platform encryption. Apple iMessage Message content limited. Subpoena: can render basic subscriber information. 18 USC §2703(d): can render 25 days of iMessage lookups and from a target number. Pen Register: no capability. *Search Warrant: can render backups of a target device; if target uses iCloud backup, the encryption keys should also be provided with content return can also acquire iMessages from iCloud returns if target has enabled Messages in iCloud.
    - threatofrain 4y ago
      What you're saying is that Apple complies with the law and that iCloud is not encrypted by default. iMessages are still encrypted end to end. We surely don't desire Apple to take on the American government and win. I assume you're also not saying that because iMessages isn't anti-FBI secure, that we mind as well go fully unsecured? It's not Apple's obligation to force Google to submit to Apple's encryption protocols, and it's not Apple's obligation to force SMS standards to comply with their standard. Your concern was about bullying. Would it be better if Apple simply did away with the colors and notified you that "THIS MESSAGE IS UNENCRYPTED."?
      - angryasian 4y ago
voisin 4y ago
> one of the 4,225 secure messaging ecosystems. And that’s just Google’s collection of messaging systems!
thayne 4y ago
> Otherwise, you can get her signal or snapchat or one of the 4,225 secure messaging ecosystems And that right there is the real problem. There are a lot of messaging apps, but most of them don't interoperate with each other. So if you want to use the same app for communicating with everyone, you either need to somehow convince everyone to install your app of choice, (and in the case of iMessage buy the same kind of phone) or use SMS/MMS. And by not supporting RCS, Apple is effectively crippling that between iPhones and Android.
sershe 4y ago
Apple cripples SMS for unrelated users with their extend-extinguish approach. I used my wife's old iPhone for a few weeks when I smashed my Android phone in an accident. Then I switched back to Android (I thought iPhones were merely mediocre phones before, but actually using one for 3 weeks change my opinion to "atrocious" ;)). Then, suddenly, no iPhone user could send messages to me anymore, because Apple remembered that I was on iMessage and all the SMS messages sent to me would be redirected to iMessage. Android users were obviously unaffected. I'd send SMS to someone with an iPhone, they would reply, and it would go into a black hole. Took several weeks to resolve. My opinion of Apple as "company making stuff for basic people, like Justin Bieber" shifted towards "incompetent and/or evil lock-in, like North Korea" ;)

simonsarris 4y ago

I think if you comingle inventory (SMS messages and iMessages) and don't make that very clear to your users (Apple wants to do the opposite, to make it feel seamless), you have some obligation to not mess up the user experience on other people's devices. So I guess since then.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
How much more seam is needed than two different colors, and a label at the top of the chat window identifying the message protocol?

heavymark 4y ago

Grandma is probably more than happy with her familiar experience and rather the iphone son user who loves his iPhone but hates the limitations of having to send SMS essentially with his grandmother. So in this scenarios Tim saying son should by an android would make more sense as he’d be able to learn a new system easily than her presumably or them both having to use a separate less ideal app just to communicate with each other. If they both preferred signal or such they would use it but even in that case the rest of their friends and fam would still be using another app. So just get person an iphone isn’t realistic especially if some have to use one or the other since work pays for phone or such.

maxsilver 4y ago

> Since when did Apple have any obligation to provide iMessage to Android users? They don't. But that's not necessarily the complaint either. The argument is that they do have an obligation to not intentionally break the native cell service you paid for, which is exactly what they're doing by ignoring the RCS portion of modern LTE (GSMA) spec. It's got nothing to do with iMessage in truth. iMessage is simply how Apple has chosen to frame their excuse for intentionally breaking your cell service.

angryasian 4y ago

Since they are contributing to school bullying. not having a blue bubble shouldn't matter, but we forget how brutal school was.

threatofrain 4y ago
The color also refers to whether your messages are end to end encrypted, which is a big deal in messaging. Is the presence or absence of a padlock on browsers embarrassing? What if iMessage merely said “This message is not secured by encryption.”?
- angryasian 4y ago
  They've released whats obtainable through imessages "encryption". If it was so important to Apple that their users privacy matters to them, they'd give people a way to cross platform encryption. Apple iMessage Message content limited. Subpoena: can render basic subscriber information. 18 USC §2703(d): can render 25 days of iMessage lookups and from a target number. Pen Register: no capability. *Search Warrant: can render backups of a target device; if target uses iCloud backup, the encryption keys should also be provided with content return can also acquire iMessages from iCloud returns if target has enabled Messages in iCloud.
  - threatofrain 4y ago
    What you're saying is that Apple complies with the law and that iCloud is not encrypted by default. iMessages are still encrypted end to end. We surely don't desire Apple to take on the American government and win. I assume you're also not saying that because iMessages isn't anti-FBI secure, that we mind as well go fully unsecured? It's not Apple's obligation to force Google to submit to Apple's encryption protocols, and it's not Apple's obligation to force SMS standards to comply with their standard. Your concern was about bullying. Would it be better if Apple simply did away with the colors and notified you that "THIS MESSAGE IS UNENCRYPTED."?
    - angryasian 4y ago

voisin 4y ago

> one of the 4,225 secure messaging ecosystems. And that’s just Google’s collection of messaging systems!

thayne 4y ago

> Otherwise, you can get her signal or snapchat or one of the 4,225 secure messaging ecosystems And that right there is the real problem. There are a lot of messaging apps, but most of them don't interoperate with each other. So if you want to use the same app for communicating with everyone, you either need to somehow convince everyone to install your app of choice, (and in the case of iMessage buy the same kind of phone) or use SMS/MMS. And by not supporting RCS, Apple is effectively crippling that between iPhones and Android.

sershe 4y ago

Apple cripples SMS for unrelated users with their extend-extinguish approach. I used my wife's old iPhone for a few weeks when I smashed my Android phone in an accident. Then I switched back to Android (I thought iPhones were merely mediocre phones before, but actually using one for 3 weeks change my opinion to "atrocious" ;)). Then, suddenly, no iPhone user could send messages to me anymore, because Apple remembered that I was on iMessage and all the SMS messages sent to me would be redirected to iMessage. Android users were obviously unaffected. I'd send SMS to someone with an iPhone, they would reply, and it would go into a black hole. Took several weeks to resolve. My opinion of Apple as "company making stuff for basic people, like Justin Bieber" shifted towards "incompetent and/or evil lock-in, like North Korea" ;)