5 ms·

Sauce please.

modernpink 4y ago
LDP links to the CIA are barely a secret. Asking for a source there is only to advertise one's ignorance. Not sure about the Moonies part however.
- ttctciyf 4y ago
  One version of this is in the lobster article I linked in my other, longish, comment here.
Laaas 4y ago
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1209/S00029/reverend-moon-cult-leader-cia-asset-and-bush-family-friend.htm https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1209/S00029/reverend-moon-... There is a lot if you look around wrt. how the Unification Church was supported to disrupt communism.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
throwaway4good 4y ago
It is so established that you can find it on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democratic_Party_(Japan) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democratic_Party_(Japa... "From the 1950s through the 1970s, the United States Central Intelligence Agency spent millions of dollars attempting to influence elections in Japan to favor the LDP against more leftist parties such as the Socialists and the Communists,[24][25] although this was not revealed until the mid-1990s when it was exposed by The New York Times.[26]" Wikipedia only mentions that Moon was promoted by Radio Free Asia, here is an article that tells a bit more: https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1209/S00029/reverend-moon-cult-leader-cia-asset-and-bush-family-friend.htm https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1209/S00029/reverend-moon-... Reverend Moon: Cult leader, CIA asset and Bush family friend "In 1997, Congressman Donald Fraser launched an investigation into Moon's cult. The 444-page Congressional report alleged Moonie involvement with bribery, bank fraud, illegal kickbacks, and arms sales. The report revealed that Moon's 20,000-member Unification Church was a creation of the Korean Central Intelligence Agency (KCIA). The Moonies were working with KCIA Director Kim Chong Phil as a political instrument to influence U.S. foreign policy. The U.S. CIA was the agency primarily responsible for founding the KCIA after WW II. The Moon organization has denied any link with the U.S. intelligence agencies or the Korean government." I've heard the Moonies described as a "classic tale" on how US intelligence operations risk feeding back into US politics.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ttctciyf 4y ago
  Anyone pursuing this further might be interested in Lobster Magazine's 1991 piece by Jeffrey M Bale: The Moonies, WACL and the Korean CIA (see [1]) Regards Japan, though it's primarily concerned with "the links between the UC and the South Korean Central Intelligence Agency (KCIA)" and "the intimate connection between the UC and the World Anti-Communist League, an international umbrella organization encompassing numerous extreme right and neo-Nazi groups", the article finds that "the real key to the WACL-Moon link probably lies in Japan, and I must therefore trace the development of the Japanese UC before trying to clarify this link." And trace it he does, over several dense but fascinating paragraphs detailing relationships between UC precursor Genri Undo, "kuromaku"[2], Japanese ultranationalists and organized crime figures, including Yoshio Kodama [3], whose two lieutenants Ryoichi Sasagama and Osami Kuboki "took an early interest in [Genri Undo]" with Kuboki becoming president of the "World Christian Unification Holy Ghost Church", spearheading the UC presence in Japan. To give a taster, here's Bale on Kodama (the numbers in parens are footnotes): > To cite just one example, he provided 6.5 million yen through an intermediary -- ultranationalist gangster Karoku Tsuji -- to his Sugamo cellmate Ichiro Hatoyama for the purpose of establishing the Minshu To (Democratic Party), a new conservative party controlled by depurged prewar rightist politicians who were unable to obtain a dominant position in Prime Minister Shigeru Yoshida's bureaucrat-controlled Jiyu To (Liberal Party). (212) > Following the election of Hatoyama as Prime Minister, the two parties merged in 1955 to become the Jiyuminshu To (Liberal Democratic Party or LDP), the highly conservative pro-American party which has almost single-handedly ruled Japan up to the present day. > Since then, Kodama has often brought decisive pressure to bear on the factional struggles within the LDP, including arranging for the reelection of Nobusuke Kishi, another Sugamo cellmate, in 1959, as well as helping Eisaku Sato become Prime Minister in 1964. He also maintained close relations with other LDP politicians, such as the yakusa-connected LDP Vice President Bamboku Ono, (213) and his influence did not suffer a major setback until he was identified as the key 'fixer' in the Lockheed Corporation bribery scandal. (214) > In addition to these political activities and his 'legitimate' business operations, Kodama also became involved with numerous postwar ultranationalist and yakuza organisations, including the Matsuba Kai (Pine Needles Society), the Kokusiu Kai (National Essence Society), and the Gijin To (Righteous Men's or Martyrs' Party). (215) He served as an advisor to the predominantly Korean yakuza group led by Hisayuki Machii (born Gon-Yong Chong), the Tosei Kai (Eastern Voice Society), and organized the Kofu Kurabu (Friendly Relations Club) in 1965. (216) 1: http://www.8bitmode.com/rogerdog/lobster/lobster21.pdf http://www.8bitmode.com/rogerdog/lobster/lobster21.pdf 2: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kuromaku https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kuromaku 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshio_Kodama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshio_Kodama
cdavid 4y ago
I don't know about the unification church side of things, but it is well documented that the USA supported heavily the LDP inthe 50ies, including sinister politicians like Kishi, to advance their interest and fight communism. Kishi happened to be Abe's grand father.
- warabe 4y ago
  It is so crazy that someone like Kishi, who largely responsible for WW2, became politician again after WW2, then his grandson, Shinzo Abe, was also prime minister. I really don't understand why people support these politicians. I don't think the way Japanese people think of their politicians have changed before and after WW2. I just feel sad to see the current situation of this country. More than half of People never vote. Things will never be changed. I feel so powerless.
  - coliveira 4y ago
    It is not the people supporting these politicians. They are put there by higher powers (people with property, money, and international connections).
    - fomine3 4y ago
      and CIA. Anti communist was a big thing. Kishi revival was somewhat crazy, but his crime should not be related for Abe even though his son. TBH as a Japanese, I feel current US situation (GOP become trump party) is much crazier. It's not even controlled by CIA. I want to believe it's controlled by GRU or something.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Nazis continued to run West Germany after WWII, too. The US preferred that.
lucozade 4y ago
https://twitter.com/mooniespeppa https://twitter.com/mooniespeppa
twright 4y ago
A good analogy is that it was a bit like Operation Gladio[1] but for Japan. A short article from the LA Times (1994): https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-10-09-mn-48400-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-10-09-mn-48400-... A longer article from NYT (1994): https://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/09/world/cia-spent-millions-to-support-japanese-right-in-50-s-and-60-s.html https://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/09/world/cia-spent-millions-... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
adultSwim 4y ago
You will find more direct evidence and reporting on the KCIA's ties. At the time South Korea was a dictatorship propped up by the US. Not a big leap to go from the KCIA to the CIA. Wikipedia is a potential starting point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_Church https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_Church Here's a Washington Post article linked by Wikipedia, House Subcommittee's Report Links Rev. Moon to the KCIA (1977) https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1977/08/05/house-subcommittees-report-links-rev-moon-to-the-kcia/56bc6558-c3cb-4fcf-aa7f-420c41c8bf1f/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1977/08/05/h... New York Times covered it too. https://www.nytimes.com/1978/03/16/archives/unification-church-called-seoul-tool-house-panel-releases-documents.html https://www.nytimes.com/1978/03/16/archives/unification-chur... Please post any specific materials you find useful. Apologies for not having good links/books at the ready. Journalist Tim Shorrock posted (https://twitter.com/TimothyS/status/1558478761615626241 https://twitter.com/TimothyS/status/1558478761615626241), "Speaking of the Unification Church ... has anyone else noticed how US media coverage of Abe's assassination stopped the instant that the Japanese media began uncovering the unsavory ties between LDP, Abe, and the Moonies? Nothing about this event in the US press. Zilch." Sounds like the recent Japanese press might be a good place to look.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
dontlaugh 4y ago
This is a good summary with many references https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod/mooned-in-nara https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod/mooned-in-nara

Sauce please.

LDP links to the CIA are barely a secret. Asking for a source there is only to advertise one's ignorance. Not sure about the Moonies part however.

ttctciyf 4y ago
One version of this is in the lobster article I linked in my other, longish, comment here.

Laaas 4y ago

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1209/S00029/reverend-moon-cult-leader-cia-asset-and-bush-family-friend.htm https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1209/S00029/reverend-moon-... There is a lot if you look around wrt. how the Unification Church was supported to disrupt communism.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

throwaway4good 4y ago

It is so established that you can find it on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democratic_Party_(Japan) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democratic_Party_(Japa... "From the 1950s through the 1970s, the United States Central Intelligence Agency spent millions of dollars attempting to influence elections in Japan to favor the LDP against more leftist parties such as the Socialists and the Communists,[24][25] although this was not revealed until the mid-1990s when it was exposed by The New York Times.[26]" Wikipedia only mentions that Moon was promoted by Radio Free Asia, here is an article that tells a bit more: https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1209/S00029/reverend-moon-cult-leader-cia-asset-and-bush-family-friend.htm https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1209/S00029/reverend-moon-... Reverend Moon: Cult leader, CIA asset and Bush family friend "In 1997, Congressman Donald Fraser launched an investigation into Moon's cult. The 444-page Congressional report alleged Moonie involvement with bribery, bank fraud, illegal kickbacks, and arms sales. The report revealed that Moon's 20,000-member Unification Church was a creation of the Korean Central Intelligence Agency (KCIA). The Moonies were working with KCIA Director Kim Chong Phil as a political instrument to influence U.S. foreign policy. The U.S. CIA was the agency primarily responsible for founding the KCIA after WW II. The Moon organization has denied any link with the U.S. intelligence agencies or the Korean government." I've heard the Moonies described as a "classic tale" on how US intelligence operations risk feeding back into US politics.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ttctciyf 4y ago
Anyone pursuing this further might be interested in Lobster Magazine's 1991 piece by Jeffrey M Bale: The Moonies, WACL and the Korean CIA (see [1]) Regards Japan, though it's primarily concerned with "the links between the UC and the South Korean Central Intelligence Agency (KCIA)" and "the intimate connection between the UC and the World Anti-Communist League, an international umbrella organization encompassing numerous extreme right and neo-Nazi groups", the article finds that "the real key to the WACL-Moon link probably lies in Japan, and I must therefore trace the development of the Japanese UC before trying to clarify this link." And trace it he does, over several dense but fascinating paragraphs detailing relationships between UC precursor Genri Undo, "kuromaku"[2], Japanese ultranationalists and organized crime figures, including Yoshio Kodama [3], whose two lieutenants Ryoichi Sasagama and Osami Kuboki "took an early interest in [Genri Undo]" with Kuboki becoming president of the "World Christian Unification Holy Ghost Church", spearheading the UC presence in Japan. To give a taster, here's Bale on Kodama (the numbers in parens are footnotes): > To cite just one example, he provided 6.5 million yen through an intermediary -- ultranationalist gangster Karoku Tsuji -- to his Sugamo cellmate Ichiro Hatoyama for the purpose of establishing the Minshu To (Democratic Party), a new conservative party controlled by depurged prewar rightist politicians who were unable to obtain a dominant position in Prime Minister Shigeru Yoshida's bureaucrat-controlled Jiyu To (Liberal Party). (212) > Following the election of Hatoyama as Prime Minister, the two parties merged in 1955 to become the Jiyuminshu To (Liberal Democratic Party or LDP), the highly conservative pro-American party which has almost single-handedly ruled Japan up to the present day. > Since then, Kodama has often brought decisive pressure to bear on the factional struggles within the LDP, including arranging for the reelection of Nobusuke Kishi, another Sugamo cellmate, in 1959, as well as helping Eisaku Sato become Prime Minister in 1964. He also maintained close relations with other LDP politicians, such as the yakusa-connected LDP Vice President Bamboku Ono, (213) and his influence did not suffer a major setback until he was identified as the key 'fixer' in the Lockheed Corporation bribery scandal. (214) > In addition to these political activities and his 'legitimate' business operations, Kodama also became involved with numerous postwar ultranationalist and yakuza organisations, including the Matsuba Kai (Pine Needles Society), the Kokusiu Kai (National Essence Society), and the Gijin To (Righteous Men's or Martyrs' Party). (215) He served as an advisor to the predominantly Korean yakuza group led by Hisayuki Machii (born Gon-Yong Chong), the Tosei Kai (Eastern Voice Society), and organized the Kofu Kurabu (Friendly Relations Club) in 1965. (216) 1: http://www.8bitmode.com/rogerdog/lobster/lobster21.pdf http://www.8bitmode.com/rogerdog/lobster/lobster21.pdf 2: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kuromaku https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kuromaku 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshio_Kodama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshio_Kodama

cdavid 4y ago

I don't know about the unification church side of things, but it is well documented that the USA supported heavily the LDP inthe 50ies, including sinister politicians like Kishi, to advance their interest and fight communism. Kishi happened to be Abe's grand father.

warabe 4y ago
It is so crazy that someone like Kishi, who largely responsible for WW2, became politician again after WW2, then his grandson, Shinzo Abe, was also prime minister. I really don't understand why people support these politicians. I don't think the way Japanese people think of their politicians have changed before and after WW2. I just feel sad to see the current situation of this country. More than half of People never vote. Things will never be changed. I feel so powerless.
- coliveira 4y ago
  It is not the people supporting these politicians. They are put there by higher powers (people with property, money, and international connections).
  - fomine3 4y ago
    and CIA. Anti communist was a big thing. Kishi revival was somewhat crazy, but his crime should not be related for Abe even though his son. TBH as a Japanese, I feel current US situation (GOP become trump party) is much crazier. It's not even controlled by CIA. I want to believe it's controlled by GRU or something.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Nazis continued to run West Germany after WWII, too. The US preferred that.

lucozade 4y ago

https://twitter.com/mooniespeppa https://twitter.com/mooniespeppa

twright 4y ago

A good analogy is that it was a bit like Operation Gladio[1] but for Japan. A short article from the LA Times (1994): https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-10-09-mn-48400-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-10-09-mn-48400-... A longer article from NYT (1994): https://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/09/world/cia-spent-millions-to-support-japanese-right-in-50-s-and-60-s.html https://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/09/world/cia-spent-millions-... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

adultSwim 4y ago

You will find more direct evidence and reporting on the KCIA's ties. At the time South Korea was a dictatorship propped up by the US. Not a big leap to go from the KCIA to the CIA. Wikipedia is a potential starting point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_Church https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_Church Here's a Washington Post article linked by Wikipedia, House Subcommittee's Report Links Rev. Moon to the KCIA (1977) https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1977/08/05/house-subcommittees-report-links-rev-moon-to-the-kcia/56bc6558-c3cb-4fcf-aa7f-420c41c8bf1f/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1977/08/05/h... New York Times covered it too. https://www.nytimes.com/1978/03/16/archives/unification-church-called-seoul-tool-house-panel-releases-documents.html https://www.nytimes.com/1978/03/16/archives/unification-chur... Please post any specific materials you find useful. Apologies for not having good links/books at the ready. Journalist Tim Shorrock posted (https://twitter.com/TimothyS/status/1558478761615626241 https://twitter.com/TimothyS/status/1558478761615626241), "Speaking of the Unification Church ... has anyone else noticed how US media coverage of Abe's assassination stopped the instant that the Japanese media began uncovering the unsavory ties between LDP, Abe, and the Moonies? Nothing about this event in the US press. Zilch." Sounds like the recent Japanese press might be a good place to look.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

dontlaugh 4y ago

This is a good summary with many references https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod/mooned-in-nara https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod/mooned-in-nara