5 ms·

Why is iMessage even an issue? All phones can send conventional texts to each other

emodendroket 4y ago
According to the article, some videos and things like this, and also the phone showing non-iMessage SMS in a different color, an apparent source of embarrassment to teens. But personally I can’t say I have ever noticed this limitation.
- kurupt213 4y ago
  But there are other ways to send these media files. Why is apple obligated to provide a solution to android
  - emodendroket 4y ago
    Well I guess that’s Cook’s argument as well.
Aaronstotle 4y ago
Or use a messenger like WhatsApp or Signal
felixdaq 4y ago
The average Joe does not know the difference between SMS and the more advanced features that iMessage offers when messaging withing the apple ecosystem. All they see is that androids are unable to send high quality images, send reactions etc.
- gw99 4y ago
  Err yeah they do know. Everyone just uses WhatsApp.
  - angryasian 4y ago
    Meta's whatsapp is not great either. Telegram or Signal are better alternatives.
    - gw99 4y ago
      The only good one is where the people you need to communicate with. Which isn’t telegram or signal for me.
- Overtonwindow 4y ago
  But why is this Apple’s problem? The average Joe does not know the difference between a Tesla and a Toyota, specifically the more advanced features that the Tesla offers. Should Tesla be required to change their system to be more “compatible“ with Toyota? This whole iMessage android debacle just sounds like sour grapes.
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
    That metaphor doesn't make sense because these are communication devices that are supposed to interact. It's more like if only other Tesla's could hear each-others horns or signal lights or something, but even that's not great.
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  It's incredibly obvious though. Modern messaging apps send messages instantly. SMS takes at least 10 seconds. Makes a huge difference when people are trying to have a conversation.
windowsrookie 4y ago
iMessage sends high quality pictures and videos, try to send a video thru mms and it is unusable. iMessage also has read receipts, you can see if they are typing. iMessage works over wifi without a cellular connection (which was a big deal, but I believe carries now support this for android phones) Also iMessage automatically just works by default. You don't download an app and make an account. So for anybody who is not tech savvy they have to do nothing. Try to explain to my grandma she has to download a messaging app and sign up for an account so I can send her a video. Not going to happen.
- chimeracoder 4y ago
  > iMessage sends high quality pictures and videos, try to send a video thru mms and it is unusable. iMessage also has read receipts, you can see if they are typing. iMessage works over wifi without a cellular connection (which was a big deal, but I believe carries now support this for android phones) To add to what you're saying: RCS (which everyone except Apple uses) offers all of those things as well, and offers them in a way that is interoperable with all non-Apple phones. iMessage doesn't actually do anything that RCS doesn't do. Apple simply refuses to adopt RCS (or make iMessage interoperable) because they want to use the lock-in to drive more sales of Apple products.
  - pwinnski 4y ago
    RCS does not provide end-to-end encryption, and requires a phone number. That's two things iMessage does that RCS doesn't do.
  - windowsrookie 4y ago
    iMessage existed for maybe a decade before RCS had a widespread rollout? Yes, everyone now uses RCS, but that has only been true for the last few years. iMessage still has some features that RCS doesn't, and Apple had a 10 year head start on integrating these features into their phones.
- gnicholas 4y ago
  > Also iMessage automatically just works by default I would imagine Apple would say that this is one of the big features of iMessage, and is partly because they control the system end-to-end. I'm sure they could make a system that interoperates with Android and works quite reliably, but it's not quite so easy to argue that they have a legal obligation to build and maintain such a system.
regulation_d 4y ago
Media is a big issue. MMS is potato quality compared to what you can send over RCS.
devilbunny 4y ago
I can send SMS to up to nine other people in a group with an iPhone. They will not get it if not in cell phone reception range. Any group of 11 or more requires all users to be on iMessage. My group is more than ten people, and we work in a hospital (large building with heavy concrete structure - cell reception is entirely absent from significant areas, and we often depend on iMessage over the WiFi for delivering information). Any alternative solution (Signal, GroupMe, whatever) would have to be installed by all. Before I switched to an iPhone, I was one of two out of about 30 who didn't have one. This meant that group messages simply didn't get to me, and I discovered (e.g.) that our secretary had cancer when she asked me about good restaurants near M.D. Anderson. This is bad behavior by Apple, but I decided to be practical about it: I can either be included in important information by buying an iPhone, or I can try to change almost 30 other people who want to keep on using one app for all their text-ish communications. You don't have an option like you do on Android to use Signal, which will send over their own protocol if possible but will revert to SMS for non-users. And, as others have noted, you don't have RCS. But I'm not going to change Apple singlehandedly, and I'm unlikely to force everyone else to use a different app solely to talk to me and one other guy. They'll just keep doing what they've been doing, and we will continue to be out of the loop. Oh, and hospital IT blocks WiFi calling (but not texts). So far, my workaround has been to set up OpenVPN inside my home network and just VPN my entire phone and iPad through that. It takes a few seconds to connect properly, but it does work.

According to the article, some videos and things like this, and also the phone showing non-iMessage SMS in a different color, an apparent source of embarrassment to teens. But personally I can’t say I have ever noticed this limitation.

kurupt213 4y ago
But there are other ways to send these media files. Why is apple obligated to provide a solution to android
- emodendroket 4y ago
  Well I guess that’s Cook’s argument as well.

Aaronstotle 4y ago

Or use a messenger like WhatsApp or Signal

felixdaq 4y ago

The average Joe does not know the difference between SMS and the more advanced features that iMessage offers when messaging withing the apple ecosystem. All they see is that androids are unable to send high quality images, send reactions etc.

gw99 4y ago
Err yeah they do know. Everyone just uses WhatsApp.
- angryasian 4y ago
  Meta's whatsapp is not great either. Telegram or Signal are better alternatives.
  - gw99 4y ago
    The only good one is where the people you need to communicate with. Which isn’t telegram or signal for me.
Overtonwindow 4y ago
But why is this Apple’s problem? The average Joe does not know the difference between a Tesla and a Toyota, specifically the more advanced features that the Tesla offers. Should Tesla be required to change their system to be more “compatible“ with Toyota? This whole iMessage android debacle just sounds like sour grapes.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  That metaphor doesn't make sense because these are communication devices that are supposed to interact. It's more like if only other Tesla's could hear each-others horns or signal lights or something, but even that's not great.
colinmhayes 4y ago
It's incredibly obvious though. Modern messaging apps send messages instantly. SMS takes at least 10 seconds. Makes a huge difference when people are trying to have a conversation.

windowsrookie 4y ago

iMessage sends high quality pictures and videos, try to send a video thru mms and it is unusable. iMessage also has read receipts, you can see if they are typing. iMessage works over wifi without a cellular connection (which was a big deal, but I believe carries now support this for android phones) Also iMessage automatically just works by default. You don't download an app and make an account. So for anybody who is not tech savvy they have to do nothing. Try to explain to my grandma she has to download a messaging app and sign up for an account so I can send her a video. Not going to happen.

chimeracoder 4y ago
> iMessage sends high quality pictures and videos, try to send a video thru mms and it is unusable. iMessage also has read receipts, you can see if they are typing. iMessage works over wifi without a cellular connection (which was a big deal, but I believe carries now support this for android phones) To add to what you're saying: RCS (which everyone except Apple uses) offers all of those things as well, and offers them in a way that is interoperable with all non-Apple phones. iMessage doesn't actually do anything that RCS doesn't do. Apple simply refuses to adopt RCS (or make iMessage interoperable) because they want to use the lock-in to drive more sales of Apple products.
- pwinnski 4y ago
  RCS does not provide end-to-end encryption, and requires a phone number. That's two things iMessage does that RCS doesn't do.
- windowsrookie 4y ago
  iMessage existed for maybe a decade before RCS had a widespread rollout? Yes, everyone now uses RCS, but that has only been true for the last few years. iMessage still has some features that RCS doesn't, and Apple had a 10 year head start on integrating these features into their phones.
gnicholas 4y ago
> Also iMessage automatically just works by default I would imagine Apple would say that this is one of the big features of iMessage, and is partly because they control the system end-to-end. I'm sure they could make a system that interoperates with Android and works quite reliably, but it's not quite so easy to argue that they have a legal obligation to build and maintain such a system.

regulation_d 4y ago

Media is a big issue. MMS is potato quality compared to what you can send over RCS.

devilbunny 4y ago

I can send SMS to up to nine other people in a group with an iPhone. They will not get it if not in cell phone reception range. Any group of 11 or more requires all users to be on iMessage. My group is more than ten people, and we work in a hospital (large building with heavy concrete structure - cell reception is entirely absent from significant areas, and we often depend on iMessage over the WiFi for delivering information). Any alternative solution (Signal, GroupMe, whatever) would have to be installed by all. Before I switched to an iPhone, I was one of two out of about 30 who didn't have one. This meant that group messages simply didn't get to me, and I discovered (e.g.) that our secretary had cancer when she asked me about good restaurants near M.D. Anderson. This is bad behavior by Apple, but I decided to be practical about it: I can either be included in important information by buying an iPhone, or I can try to change almost 30 other people who want to keep on using one app for all their text-ish communications. You don't have an option like you do on Android to use Signal, which will send over their own protocol if possible but will revert to SMS for non-users. And, as others have noted, you don't have RCS. But I'm not going to change Apple singlehandedly, and I'm unlikely to force everyone else to use a different app solely to talk to me and one other guy. They'll just keep doing what they've been doing, and we will continue to be out of the loop. Oh, and hospital IT blocks WiFi calling (but not texts). So far, my workaround has been to set up OpenVPN inside my home network and just VPN my entire phone and iPad through that. It takes a few seconds to connect properly, but it does work.