4 ms·

Most companies are a mess internally and information/meta data about various parts about the org is badly grouped and/or named. When reporting time comes, you h

Most companies are a mess internally and information/meta data about various parts about the org is badly grouped and/or named. When reporting time comes, you have a big'ol mess to categorize things manually to make sense of it. The same issues spill over into code and thus websites and catalogues (ever wondered why some companies websites are better organised and filterable?, example Dell, but think of a car manufacturer and all their parts), so it really matters that someone or a group sits down and formalize their vocabulary & taxonomy & grouping of things. Meta data is often more important than the actual thing being described! This all plugs into DDD & standardization efforts (see banking and healthcare) and why programmers subconsciously hammers on about "naming things are hard" - whether they are aware of it or not, they are sensing that somehow the order and naming of things matter. We also have to deal with versioning of things, and not just in code, but in hardware too. So it really pays off if done well.

tanepiper 4y ago
This (disclosure: I'm one of the tech leads on this project)
LeifCarrotson 4y ago
See also the parametric search available at McMaster Carr: https://www.mcmaster.com/screws/hex-head-screws/ https://www.mcmaster.com/screws/hex-head-screws/ or Digikey: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/ceramic-capacitors/60 https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/ceramic-capacitor... or PCpartPicker: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/ https://pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/ compared to trying to find the same products on Amazon or AliExpress. Many of the products are available, but every product on those examples can be filtered against comparable products by the specs that matter to the engineers doing the selection. On other sites, the metadata is generated inconsistently by individual sellers.
- iamjackg 4y ago
  It's very interesting to me that, as an absolute amateur at electronics, I find the Amazon/AliExpress approach infinitely more usable, even though Digi-Key has a better selection of products. Of course, this is because my needs are usually something extremely generic and simple like "I need some 400ohm resistors" or "I need an 8-bit shift register," with a strong emphasis on the "anything goes" aspect. On Digi-Key I get absolutely lost. There are thousands of options, with different form factors, costs, availability, specs, and more. Can I buy 5 of them? What's the lead time? Is it SMD or through? How much is shipping? Which vendor do I choose? On AliExpress, I get a bunch of "5 8-bit shift registers for electronics projects" listings, check a couple of them, look up some info, and purchase one in a few minutes. Of course this means I end up with mediocre, sometimes outright broken parts, but it feels like it's worth the time I save. I wish there was a curated list or an "easy mode" on Digi-Key.
  - somat 4y ago
    Conversly when I want a power jack with a 3/4 inch hole diameter, 3 wires and no more than 1 inch penetration into the chassis. It is so nice to be able to go to a vendor that has actual metadata on the products they are selling. I hate going on amazon and having to wade through 15 pages of stuff. What I have done when I find myself with several similar items on digikey and am unable to make a choice, I will go with whatever has the biggest inventory, the assumption being whatever sells the best will probably be the best... or at least the most available, which is good enough for me.
  - asmithmd1 4y ago
    Digi-Key needs a sort by “most popular” You can often sort by number in stock to find a “normal” one
    - 8note 4y ago
      Number in stock tend to be better than popular -- popular digikey items tend to go out of stock
  - xani_ 4y ago
    As not so absolute amateur the key is to type "<parts site> <what you want>" in google and then fiddle For example "8 vit shit register" gives first link to SN74HC595B, a generic shift register and second link to parametric search https://eu.mouser.com/c/semiconductors/logic-ics/counter-shift-registers/?logic%20type=Shift%20Register&number%20of%20bits=8%20bit https://eu.mouser.com/c/semiconductors/logic-ics/counter-shi... with "logic type=shift register" and "number of bits=8" already selected. You don't even need to spell it correctly Googling smartly is > I wish there was a curated list or an "easy mode" on Digi-Key. exactly what you want.
  - jfim 4y ago
    You can ignore most of the specs that are irrelevant to your project on parametric searches. For example, here's how you'd find a generic through hole LED. Search for "through hole LED", pick a color, stocking option: in stock, sort by price, and pick whatever seems right for your project, making sure that you're not ordering something silly like 2500 LEDs (it'll be pretty obvious when you check out anyway). If there's something else that's relevant to your project (eg. the size or shape of the LED) then you can specify that. The datasheet is just a click or two away to do a sanity check that you're ordering something that makes sense. Obviously, for a generic component like a LED where the specs might not matter too much and it's fine if you get one of dubious quality, you can just get a random grab bag of LEDs off AliExpress. Or if the catalog overwhelms you, there's always Adafruit, SparkFun, Pololu, etc.
- poulsbohemian 4y ago
  >See also the parametric search available at McMaster Carr About 25 years ago I built a series of calculators for a competing industrial supplier, where you could match up the bolt / screw / washer / nut needed for each size, metal vs wood application, etc. Still a very relevant need today that I've seldom seen replicated usefully on any site.
travisjungroth 4y ago
> programmers subconsciously hammers on about "naming things are hard" - whether they are aware of it or not, they are sensing that somehow the order and naming of things matter. Never seen someone noble savage programmers before.
wikfwikf 4y ago
To provide a concrete example, TFA said that 'product' was a 'concept'. Another concept could be 'part'. Another concept could be 'package'. (You buy a product such as a bookcase. You then go and pick up one or more packages which make up that product. When you get the packages home and open them up, each contains several parts.) There are lots of different systems at IKEA, which work somewhat in parallel but sometimes have to interoperate. For example, point of sale, returns, warehouse management, showroom design. Some of them care about all of product/package/part, but many of them care more about one of those levels than the other. Point of sale just needs to know what products you bought, not what parts are in the packages. Warehouse really cares about what packages there are, but also wants to be aware of which sets of packages are products. Suppose that one system doesn't make a distinction between product and package, or uses 'product' to mean either product or package. That system might work perfectly fine on its own, but when it has to interact with another system which cares a lot about that categorical distinction, things will go wrong. So you want to have one place where all those concepts are defined. Then when you create a new system, you can confirm that you are using the same categories with the same meanings as everyone else.
MetaWhirledPeas 4y ago
I'm consistently impressed with how IKEA does business, with the exception of their website. For example, search for "storage bin" then try to filter by the dimensions of the bin (for fitting on a bookshelf or in a cubby hole). You're given two filtering choices: Large and Medium. Those are not very helpful choices. I'm sure their metadata is great compared to some groups, but in my case it's still insufficient.
- tanepiper 4y ago
  Not only you. It's an identified problem the Knowledge Graph is attempting to solve.
  - MetaWhirledPeas 4y ago
    I also noticed it might be considering a more European usage of the word "bin". There were lots of trash cans in the results. The metadata might need to be regionalized.
    - tanepiper 4y ago
      Indeed localisation is more than just labels, even whole rooms or activities can be treated differently in countries (sleeping just for starters...)

tanepiper 4y ago

This (disclosure: I'm one of the tech leads on this project)

LeifCarrotson 4y ago

See also the parametric search available at McMaster Carr: https://www.mcmaster.com/screws/hex-head-screws/ https://www.mcmaster.com/screws/hex-head-screws/ or Digikey: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/ceramic-capacitors/60 https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/ceramic-capacitor... or PCpartPicker: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/ https://pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/ compared to trying to find the same products on Amazon or AliExpress. Many of the products are available, but every product on those examples can be filtered against comparable products by the specs that matter to the engineers doing the selection. On other sites, the metadata is generated inconsistently by individual sellers.

iamjackg 4y ago
It's very interesting to me that, as an absolute amateur at electronics, I find the Amazon/AliExpress approach infinitely more usable, even though Digi-Key has a better selection of products. Of course, this is because my needs are usually something extremely generic and simple like "I need some 400ohm resistors" or "I need an 8-bit shift register," with a strong emphasis on the "anything goes" aspect. On Digi-Key I get absolutely lost. There are thousands of options, with different form factors, costs, availability, specs, and more. Can I buy 5 of them? What's the lead time? Is it SMD or through? How much is shipping? Which vendor do I choose? On AliExpress, I get a bunch of "5 8-bit shift registers for electronics projects" listings, check a couple of them, look up some info, and purchase one in a few minutes. Of course this means I end up with mediocre, sometimes outright broken parts, but it feels like it's worth the time I save. I wish there was a curated list or an "easy mode" on Digi-Key.
- somat 4y ago
  Conversly when I want a power jack with a 3/4 inch hole diameter, 3 wires and no more than 1 inch penetration into the chassis. It is so nice to be able to go to a vendor that has actual metadata on the products they are selling. I hate going on amazon and having to wade through 15 pages of stuff. What I have done when I find myself with several similar items on digikey and am unable to make a choice, I will go with whatever has the biggest inventory, the assumption being whatever sells the best will probably be the best... or at least the most available, which is good enough for me.
- asmithmd1 4y ago
  Digi-Key needs a sort by “most popular” You can often sort by number in stock to find a “normal” one
  - 8note 4y ago
    Number in stock tend to be better than popular -- popular digikey items tend to go out of stock
- xani_ 4y ago
  As not so absolute amateur the key is to type "<parts site> <what you want>" in google and then fiddle For example "8 vit shit register" gives first link to SN74HC595B, a generic shift register and second link to parametric search https://eu.mouser.com/c/semiconductors/logic-ics/counter-shift-registers/?logic%20type=Shift%20Register&number%20of%20bits=8%20bit https://eu.mouser.com/c/semiconductors/logic-ics/counter-shi... with "logic type=shift register" and "number of bits=8" already selected. You don't even need to spell it correctly Googling smartly is > I wish there was a curated list or an "easy mode" on Digi-Key. exactly what you want.
- jfim 4y ago
  You can ignore most of the specs that are irrelevant to your project on parametric searches. For example, here's how you'd find a generic through hole LED. Search for "through hole LED", pick a color, stocking option: in stock, sort by price, and pick whatever seems right for your project, making sure that you're not ordering something silly like 2500 LEDs (it'll be pretty obvious when you check out anyway). If there's something else that's relevant to your project (eg. the size or shape of the LED) then you can specify that. The datasheet is just a click or two away to do a sanity check that you're ordering something that makes sense. Obviously, for a generic component like a LED where the specs might not matter too much and it's fine if you get one of dubious quality, you can just get a random grab bag of LEDs off AliExpress. Or if the catalog overwhelms you, there's always Adafruit, SparkFun, Pololu, etc.
poulsbohemian 4y ago
>See also the parametric search available at McMaster Carr About 25 years ago I built a series of calculators for a competing industrial supplier, where you could match up the bolt / screw / washer / nut needed for each size, metal vs wood application, etc. Still a very relevant need today that I've seldom seen replicated usefully on any site.

travisjungroth 4y ago

> programmers subconsciously hammers on about "naming things are hard" - whether they are aware of it or not, they are sensing that somehow the order and naming of things matter. Never seen someone noble savage programmers before.

wikfwikf 4y ago

To provide a concrete example, TFA said that 'product' was a 'concept'. Another concept could be 'part'. Another concept could be 'package'. (You buy a product such as a bookcase. You then go and pick up one or more packages which make up that product. When you get the packages home and open them up, each contains several parts.) There are lots of different systems at IKEA, which work somewhat in parallel but sometimes have to interoperate. For example, point of sale, returns, warehouse management, showroom design. Some of them care about all of product/package/part, but many of them care more about one of those levels than the other. Point of sale just needs to know what products you bought, not what parts are in the packages. Warehouse really cares about what packages there are, but also wants to be aware of which sets of packages are products. Suppose that one system doesn't make a distinction between product and package, or uses 'product' to mean either product or package. That system might work perfectly fine on its own, but when it has to interact with another system which cares a lot about that categorical distinction, things will go wrong. So you want to have one place where all those concepts are defined. Then when you create a new system, you can confirm that you are using the same categories with the same meanings as everyone else.

MetaWhirledPeas 4y ago

I'm consistently impressed with how IKEA does business, with the exception of their website. For example, search for "storage bin" then try to filter by the dimensions of the bin (for fitting on a bookshelf or in a cubby hole). You're given two filtering choices: Large and Medium. Those are not very helpful choices. I'm sure their metadata is great compared to some groups, but in my case it's still insufficient.

tanepiper 4y ago
Not only you. It's an identified problem the Knowledge Graph is attempting to solve.
- MetaWhirledPeas 4y ago
  I also noticed it might be considering a more European usage of the word "bin". There were lots of trash cans in the results. The metadata might need to be regionalized.
  - tanepiper 4y ago
    Indeed localisation is more than just labels, even whole rooms or activities can be treated differently in countries (sleeping just for starters...)