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I think there is a lesson in there somewhere, perhaps you're just missing it. Instead of trying to counter his points, try extracting what you can from it. In t

I think there is a lesson in there somewhere, perhaps you're just missing it. Instead of trying to counter his points, try extracting what you can from it. In the long run this will help you a lot more than just pointing out things you don't like.

codexon 15y ago
I think there is a lesson in there somewhere, perhaps you're just missing it. Please point out the lesson instead of a bunch of handwaving to save face for Jason Fried.
- andy_boot 15y ago
  The lesson is that you are learning _sales_. You are learning what does and does not work. When you try that with a real project (ie your business) you will have already learned a lot from repeatedly selling an ipod using different methods on ebay.
  - 0x44 15y ago
    That assumes that every sale is identical and that the lessons one need learn to make a $150,000.00 sale are identical to those one need learn to sell something for $150.00.
    - jeremymcanally 15y ago
      The basic principles do apply for the most part. I think that's why most people suck at sales. They think that there's some voodoo once you get above $1,000 or $100,000 and learning anything about sales at a level below that just isn't worth it. False. It's all basically the same ideas just applied differently at varying scales.
    - brc 15y ago
      Believe me, there is a lot more overlap in closing a $15.00 and $150,000 sale than most people realise. The key problem for most people is that they are coming from a base of zero - ie, have never sold anything in their life - is that they can't bring themselves to ask for the sale. A lot of people are uncomfortable with sales transaction beyond those which require you to walk to a register and present goods for purchase. A lot of people have a baked-in attitude that money is evil and trying to make it is a dirty business. All these things have to be overcome to be successful as an entrepreneur. Practicing selling on ebay requires you to write copy where you ask for the sale. Closing a $150,000 sale requires you to ask for the sale. Both sales require you to communicate with your buyer, to know your subject, to write clearly and to know when you are wasting your time. Every sale is not identical, even on ebay, because each time a new customer appears with different needs and a different level of understanding. I once bought a bulk lot of electronic equipment at live auction, then sold all the individual pieces on ebay, making a tidy little profit. This predated my efforts to sell anything online, and I learnt an enormous amount. I learnt that some people will pay silly prices for things, maybe because they need it right now, maybe because they live remotely and can't drive to the shop, maybe because they don't know the value of things. I learnt how to write copy that got the point across, communicated my trustworthiness as a seller, and yet communicated the important details without reading like a spec sheet. I even managed to sell a clearly broken LCD as a bet with one of my friends, who bet me I could sell it, and I bet nobody would buy it. Someone paid me $40 for an LCD with a massive crack and bleeding in it. I have no idea why - perhaps they wanted the case or some other part of it. I lost that bet and learnt a good lesson in the meantime, which is don't presume to know who or what your market is. And that selling, like any other skill, requires repetition, practice and learning to get good at it.
- hluska 15y ago
  Some lessons you can learn from selling on eBay: - how to write good, compelling copy. This is one particular skill that is tremendously hard to learn, yet valuable to possess. It includes things like selecting pictures, figuring out what information to include and how to A/B test your ads. - how to deal with difficult customers. - how to answer questions when you're dealing with someone who really does not understand. "So, if I get this SIM card I can play the Sims on my phone?" - how to figure out what goods will sell versus sit in inventory for years.
- alexwolfe 15y ago
  I'm not sure if you even read the article. At the end of almost every point he specifically points out the lesson. Example - "There's another lesson in here: Charging for something makes you want to make it better. I've found this to be really important. It's a great lesson if you want to learn how to make money." Do you just not like this guy or something? There is no hand waving going on. Just trying to learn something from a successful businessman who's willing to share his experiences.
  - codexon 15y ago
    That lesson doesn't apply to reselling commodities on Ebay. That is the entire point of my comment. The only rebuttal here is from someone who was using bulk discount arbitrage to make a profit. This is not a very good lesson to learn for the amount of time and effort you put into it, especially when you aren't even making the product "better". And of course I don't like this guy. He sells himself as a business guru like those get rich quick guys, and he is famously arrogant for criticizing the value of other companies like Facebook.
    - alexwolfe 15y ago
      His eBay comment was about getting good at the skill of selling things and making money. He does not advocate this as a business but rather a way to practice. It is not risky at all. He tells you to buy 1 iPod and sell it. When you sell it buy another and repeat the process until you feel like you improved your messaging, sales pitch, pictures, etc. Worst case scenario you get stuck with 1 iPod. How is that risky? Did you think he was advocating this as a business? He's not, just practice. Also, if you don't like him that's fine but why not still try to learn something? The reality is in life they are going to be plenty of people you don't like, plenty. If you can't learn from others because of your own personal bias you're going to hold yourself back big time.
      - codexon 15y ago
        He tells you to buy 1 iPod and sell it. When you sell it buy another and repeat the process until you feel like you improved your messaging, sales pitch, pictures, etc. Worst case scenario you get stuck with 1 iPod. How is that risky? Why do I have to keep repeating myself? No one gave an example of how you can feasibly mark up a commodity like an iPod to get anywhere above the 10% Paypal and Ebay fee except when you buy in bulk. And when you buy in bulk you risk a lot more than 1 iPod. And I am not arguing about this because he is Jason Fried. I am arguing about it because this is bad advice.

codexon 15y ago

I think there is a lesson in there somewhere, perhaps you're just missing it. Please point out the lesson instead of a bunch of handwaving to save face for Jason Fried.

andy_boot 15y ago
The lesson is that you are learning _sales_. You are learning what does and does not work. When you try that with a real project (ie your business) you will have already learned a lot from repeatedly selling an ipod using different methods on ebay.
- 0x44 15y ago
  That assumes that every sale is identical and that the lessons one need learn to make a $150,000.00 sale are identical to those one need learn to sell something for $150.00.
  - jeremymcanally 15y ago
    The basic principles do apply for the most part. I think that's why most people suck at sales. They think that there's some voodoo once you get above $1,000 or $100,000 and learning anything about sales at a level below that just isn't worth it. False. It's all basically the same ideas just applied differently at varying scales.
  - brc 15y ago
    Believe me, there is a lot more overlap in closing a $15.00 and $150,000 sale than most people realise. The key problem for most people is that they are coming from a base of zero - ie, have never sold anything in their life - is that they can't bring themselves to ask for the sale. A lot of people are uncomfortable with sales transaction beyond those which require you to walk to a register and present goods for purchase. A lot of people have a baked-in attitude that money is evil and trying to make it is a dirty business. All these things have to be overcome to be successful as an entrepreneur. Practicing selling on ebay requires you to write copy where you ask for the sale. Closing a $150,000 sale requires you to ask for the sale. Both sales require you to communicate with your buyer, to know your subject, to write clearly and to know when you are wasting your time. Every sale is not identical, even on ebay, because each time a new customer appears with different needs and a different level of understanding. I once bought a bulk lot of electronic equipment at live auction, then sold all the individual pieces on ebay, making a tidy little profit. This predated my efforts to sell anything online, and I learnt an enormous amount. I learnt that some people will pay silly prices for things, maybe because they need it right now, maybe because they live remotely and can't drive to the shop, maybe because they don't know the value of things. I learnt how to write copy that got the point across, communicated my trustworthiness as a seller, and yet communicated the important details without reading like a spec sheet. I even managed to sell a clearly broken LCD as a bet with one of my friends, who bet me I could sell it, and I bet nobody would buy it. Someone paid me $40 for an LCD with a massive crack and bleeding in it. I have no idea why - perhaps they wanted the case or some other part of it. I lost that bet and learnt a good lesson in the meantime, which is don't presume to know who or what your market is. And that selling, like any other skill, requires repetition, practice and learning to get good at it.
hluska 15y ago
Some lessons you can learn from selling on eBay: - how to write good, compelling copy. This is one particular skill that is tremendously hard to learn, yet valuable to possess. It includes things like selecting pictures, figuring out what information to include and how to A/B test your ads. - how to deal with difficult customers. - how to answer questions when you're dealing with someone who really does not understand. "So, if I get this SIM card I can play the Sims on my phone?" - how to figure out what goods will sell versus sit in inventory for years.
alexwolfe 15y ago
I'm not sure if you even read the article. At the end of almost every point he specifically points out the lesson. Example - "There's another lesson in here: Charging for something makes you want to make it better. I've found this to be really important. It's a great lesson if you want to learn how to make money." Do you just not like this guy or something? There is no hand waving going on. Just trying to learn something from a successful businessman who's willing to share his experiences.
- codexon 15y ago
  That lesson doesn't apply to reselling commodities on Ebay. That is the entire point of my comment. The only rebuttal here is from someone who was using bulk discount arbitrage to make a profit. This is not a very good lesson to learn for the amount of time and effort you put into it, especially when you aren't even making the product "better". And of course I don't like this guy. He sells himself as a business guru like those get rich quick guys, and he is famously arrogant for criticizing the value of other companies like Facebook.
  - alexwolfe 15y ago
    His eBay comment was about getting good at the skill of selling things and making money. He does not advocate this as a business but rather a way to practice. It is not risky at all. He tells you to buy 1 iPod and sell it. When you sell it buy another and repeat the process until you feel like you improved your messaging, sales pitch, pictures, etc. Worst case scenario you get stuck with 1 iPod. How is that risky? Did you think he was advocating this as a business? He's not, just practice. Also, if you don't like him that's fine but why not still try to learn something? The reality is in life they are going to be plenty of people you don't like, plenty. If you can't learn from others because of your own personal bias you're going to hold yourself back big time.
    - codexon 15y ago
      He tells you to buy 1 iPod and sell it. When you sell it buy another and repeat the process until you feel like you improved your messaging, sales pitch, pictures, etc. Worst case scenario you get stuck with 1 iPod. How is that risky? Why do I have to keep repeating myself? No one gave an example of how you can feasibly mark up a commodity like an iPod to get anywhere above the 10% Paypal and Ebay fee except when you buy in bulk. And when you buy in bulk you risk a lot more than 1 iPod. And I am not arguing about this because he is Jason Fried. I am arguing about it because this is bad advice.