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Good one! :D I really do wonder what happens when someone uploads a fake ID. Can they catch that (after all, the check is probably automatic in most instances

Good one! :D I really do wonder what happens when someone uploads a fake ID. Can they catch that (after all, the check is probably automatic in most instances since they don't have the personell), and if they do, would they try to take that person to court?

blitzar 4y ago
Whats the worst that they can do ... not let you have a facebook account?
- data_maan 4y ago
  Not sure, they could take you to court for forging ID? But this is definitely something they can't do at scale, since their whole operation is set up to work at scale by automation. So with high probability I'd guess not having an account is the worst. But I may be wrong, maybe someone more knowledgeable can chime in.
  - akomtu 4y ago
    They cant take you to court without knowing who you are. What they can do is to refer your IP address to the FBI for "forging IDs", but even then the IP adress needs to be real and FBI must be overstaffed to deal with such matters.
aneeshnl 4y ago
They can't do anything. I was not getting proper name in fb, so I changed my name in ID a bit using photoshop and they accepted without any issues. Just block out the ID numbers and all and how will they identity?
- _nalply 4y ago
  Lycamobile Switzerland has an online ID verification where you are required to take a video with you and your ID and they give you instruction to move the ID card so that the holographic elements of the ID get verifiable.
  - bambax 4y ago
    Wow. Why would anyone subject to that? I think we're very near the point where a system can change letters and numbers on a moving ID in a video, if we're not there already. (And if one is patient enough, and the video is short enough, it's not impossible to do it by hand.)
    - _nalply 4y ago
      Me! I got somewhat blindsided and I needed the service, so I complied. The alternative would be to show up in the cell operator shop and show the employee your ID. I find it even somewhat nice that I was able to register online at all. It's mandated by Swiss law. Cell service operators must identify their customers by ID. You know, south of Switzerland is Italy and sometimes the honorable crowd is trying to put up bases here or already did. It's also a fight against money laundering. Re your suggestion to tamper with the video: be careful, it's illegal. You don't know whether the hologram or other features encode the identification number. If you get caught it can get expensive.
      - data_maan 4y ago
        What companies like Airbnb are doing might also be illegal. For sure it is highly unethical. I wonder how they would react if everyone would start trolling Airbnb and Facebook by submitting photoshopped IDs :D Good point about the holograms. But since public companies are verifying them -- and not the gov't -- the information what is on them must be public as well. Heck, I'm even willing to bet someone in this crowd might be working for such a company and might know the answer. And if the info is out there it can be photoshopped (or tampered with via AI, stable diffusion ID generation, my next weekend project maybe haha ;) Ok, returning to more serious matters (that before waa a joke BTW), the only ethical way of verifying an ID would be an eyes-only approach, where you only show your ID to an employee, no copies being taken (this requires Airbnb to habe offices everywhere, which is not feasible they would claim). Then you'd use your ID to generate a number that can't be tracked back to your ID, akin to how datasets are anonymized. That way all the company knows is that a certain string of numbers identifies a semi-unique person. I have heard the German postal office had implemented such a system once, so it could be done actually.
- data_maan 4y ago
  If you block out the ID numbers they won't accept your ID. Was this a long time ago? These days I guess you'd actually need to actively change the ID numbers.
IIAOPSW 4y ago
Take them to court over what exactly? Where's the damages? FB would have to show that being misinformed about your name cost them anything whatsoever. They could try getting the DA to prosecute you under computer fraud and abuse (unauthorized access to a computer system under a false identity). Even that is a huge risk. Imagine the precedent set if the jury decides to nullify, and what sane jury wouldn't nullify over the charge of "set up a fb account under a fake name and ID"? And does the DA really want to risk gaining a reputation for being FB lapdog? The truth is, FB demands an ID but they have no real right or basis for making this demand.
- tiahura 4y ago
  Your analysis about the practical consequences is correct, however your last statement is wrong. They do have the right to ask for an ID if you want to use their service. You have no right to use Facebook.

blitzar 4y ago

Whats the worst that they can do ... not let you have a facebook account?

data_maan 4y ago
Not sure, they could take you to court for forging ID? But this is definitely something they can't do at scale, since their whole operation is set up to work at scale by automation. So with high probability I'd guess not having an account is the worst. But I may be wrong, maybe someone more knowledgeable can chime in.
- akomtu 4y ago
  They cant take you to court without knowing who you are. What they can do is to refer your IP address to the FBI for "forging IDs", but even then the IP adress needs to be real and FBI must be overstaffed to deal with such matters.

aneeshnl 4y ago

They can't do anything. I was not getting proper name in fb, so I changed my name in ID a bit using photoshop and they accepted without any issues. Just block out the ID numbers and all and how will they identity?

_nalply 4y ago
Lycamobile Switzerland has an online ID verification where you are required to take a video with you and your ID and they give you instruction to move the ID card so that the holographic elements of the ID get verifiable.
- bambax 4y ago
  Wow. Why would anyone subject to that? I think we're very near the point where a system can change letters and numbers on a moving ID in a video, if we're not there already. (And if one is patient enough, and the video is short enough, it's not impossible to do it by hand.)
  - _nalply 4y ago
    Me! I got somewhat blindsided and I needed the service, so I complied. The alternative would be to show up in the cell operator shop and show the employee your ID. I find it even somewhat nice that I was able to register online at all. It's mandated by Swiss law. Cell service operators must identify their customers by ID. You know, south of Switzerland is Italy and sometimes the honorable crowd is trying to put up bases here or already did. It's also a fight against money laundering. Re your suggestion to tamper with the video: be careful, it's illegal. You don't know whether the hologram or other features encode the identification number. If you get caught it can get expensive.
    - data_maan 4y ago
      What companies like Airbnb are doing might also be illegal. For sure it is highly unethical. I wonder how they would react if everyone would start trolling Airbnb and Facebook by submitting photoshopped IDs :D Good point about the holograms. But since public companies are verifying them -- and not the gov't -- the information what is on them must be public as well. Heck, I'm even willing to bet someone in this crowd might be working for such a company and might know the answer. And if the info is out there it can be photoshopped (or tampered with via AI, stable diffusion ID generation, my next weekend project maybe haha ;) Ok, returning to more serious matters (that before waa a joke BTW), the only ethical way of verifying an ID would be an eyes-only approach, where you only show your ID to an employee, no copies being taken (this requires Airbnb to habe offices everywhere, which is not feasible they would claim). Then you'd use your ID to generate a number that can't be tracked back to your ID, akin to how datasets are anonymized. That way all the company knows is that a certain string of numbers identifies a semi-unique person. I have heard the German postal office had implemented such a system once, so it could be done actually.
data_maan 4y ago
If you block out the ID numbers they won't accept your ID. Was this a long time ago? These days I guess you'd actually need to actively change the ID numbers.

IIAOPSW 4y ago

Take them to court over what exactly? Where's the damages? FB would have to show that being misinformed about your name cost them anything whatsoever. They could try getting the DA to prosecute you under computer fraud and abuse (unauthorized access to a computer system under a false identity). Even that is a huge risk. Imagine the precedent set if the jury decides to nullify, and what sane jury wouldn't nullify over the charge of "set up a fb account under a fake name and ID"? And does the DA really want to risk gaining a reputation for being FB lapdog? The truth is, FB demands an ID but they have no real right or basis for making this demand.

tiahura 4y ago
Your analysis about the practical consequences is correct, however your last statement is wrong. They do have the right to ask for an ID if you want to use their service. You have no right to use Facebook.