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> abusive jerk who wouldn't recognize his own daughter Men have to be able to choose whether they want children.

by eastbound 4y ago

sofixa 4y ago
That's pretty easy to do with 99%+ success rate.
- BiteCode_dev 4y ago
  Condoms effectivement is 98%: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/male-condoms/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/male-condoms/ If you have sex twice a week (which for a young couple is very conservative), after a year, you've reach 100 attempts already. You then better hope the two patners agree on wether or not keeping the baby.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    It's 98% for the condom itself, but if you couple it with the fact that the 2% failure rate has to correspond with an ejaculation in an ovulating female's vagina, the actual effectiveness is much higher.
    - eurleif 4y ago
      That's not accurate (if it were, we wouldn't have efficacy rates for coitus interruptus and the rhythm method that this can be directly compared to, which we do); but the rate is per year, not per act. From the link: >When used correctly every time you have sex, male condoms are 98% effective. This means 2 out of 100 people will become pregnant in 1 year when male condoms are used as contraception. On the other hand, over 20 years, that translates to an efficacy rate of only 67%.
      - BiteCode_dev 4y ago
        And that's "if used correctly". Now add passion, alcohol, nails, wrong lubricants, and ignorance for a much worse rate.
- eastbound 4y ago
  For the remaining %, men should be able to choose abortion or not being the father, as women can choose too. In the XXIth century, 100% births are voluntary.
  - codingdave 4y ago
    > as women can choose too. In the XXIth century, 100% births are voluntary. I'm not sure where you live, but those choices are not available everywhere. In the USA, they are actively being taken away. So regardless of what choices should be available, your stance is woefully out of touch with reality.
pyrale 4y ago
Aren't they?
cat_plus_plus 4y ago
Men have to be able to choose whether they want to be jerks, shouldn't be against the law. But the ones who are not total psychopaths would be willing to at least acknowledge children they happen to have and spend some time to bond with them / introduce them to their lives. And, by the time they are wealthy enough, contribute to their well being. This is completely orthogonal to whether the law should mandate child support. Women who are not psychopaths also should not see motherhood as only a burden and a fetus as useless parasite. Not saying they should be forced to give birth or that there are no good reasons for abortion. There are also good reasons for men to not pay child support, what if they are already struggling to take good care of their current wife and children? I will just choose to associate with people whose worldviews do not trouble me.

> abusive jerk who wouldn't recognize his own daughter Men have to be able to choose whether they want children.

sofixa 4y ago

That's pretty easy to do with 99%+ success rate.

BiteCode_dev 4y ago
Condoms effectivement is 98%: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/male-condoms/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/male-condoms/ If you have sex twice a week (which for a young couple is very conservative), after a year, you've reach 100 attempts already. You then better hope the two patners agree on wether or not keeping the baby.
- sofixa 4y ago
  It's 98% for the condom itself, but if you couple it with the fact that the 2% failure rate has to correspond with an ejaculation in an ovulating female's vagina, the actual effectiveness is much higher.
  - eurleif 4y ago
    That's not accurate (if it were, we wouldn't have efficacy rates for coitus interruptus and the rhythm method that this can be directly compared to, which we do); but the rate is per year, not per act. From the link: >When used correctly every time you have sex, male condoms are 98% effective. This means 2 out of 100 people will become pregnant in 1 year when male condoms are used as contraception. On the other hand, over 20 years, that translates to an efficacy rate of only 67%.
    - BiteCode_dev 4y ago
      And that's "if used correctly". Now add passion, alcohol, nails, wrong lubricants, and ignorance for a much worse rate.
eastbound 4y ago
For the remaining %, men should be able to choose abortion or not being the father, as women can choose too. In the XXIth century, 100% births are voluntary.
- codingdave 4y ago
  > as women can choose too. In the XXIth century, 100% births are voluntary. I'm not sure where you live, but those choices are not available everywhere. In the USA, they are actively being taken away. So regardless of what choices should be available, your stance is woefully out of touch with reality.

pyrale 4y ago

Aren't they?

cat_plus_plus 4y ago

Men have to be able to choose whether they want to be jerks, shouldn't be against the law. But the ones who are not total psychopaths would be willing to at least acknowledge children they happen to have and spend some time to bond with them / introduce them to their lives. And, by the time they are wealthy enough, contribute to their well being. This is completely orthogonal to whether the law should mandate child support. Women who are not psychopaths also should not see motherhood as only a burden and a fetus as useless parasite. Not saying they should be forced to give birth or that there are no good reasons for abortion. There are also good reasons for men to not pay child support, what if they are already struggling to take good care of their current wife and children? I will just choose to associate with people whose worldviews do not trouble me.