6 ms·

This advice is horribly outdated stuff from the 90's. With Ebay and Paypal fees eating up at least 10% of your earnings, it is highly unlikely you can just res

by codexon 15y ago

This advice is horribly outdated stuff from the 90's. With Ebay and Paypal fees eating up at least 10% of your earnings, it is highly unlikely you can just resell iPods or anything else on Ebay and make a profit. "I love doing this, because there's no real risk involved." No real risk except losing all the money you've invested and wasting a lot of time making Ebay entries and repeatedly learning how to pack and ship.

cantbecool 15y ago
I agree. Ebay, Amazon, and Paypal eat up every penny of profit that you would make as a reseller.
- mootothemax 15y ago
  I agree. Ebay, Amazon, and Paypal eat up every penny of profit that you would make as a reseller So all those resellers on eBay are losing money? And distributors lose all of theirs to credit card fees as well?
brc 15y ago
The idea is not to make money, well, not in the sense of making earnings from it. You're not meant to take it literally as in 'make money from reselling stuff on ebay'. Of course you lose in the transaction fees (it also mentions craigslist). Of course you're not going to make real money doing this. The point is to sharpen your sales skills and realise that experimentation and refinement is the key to developing a good sales strategy. It goes back to the central theme of the piece, which is to continually drum on things - practising all the time. Of course drumming on the steering wheel isn't applicable to playing in a band, except that it's all mental stimulation and practice of sorts.
- codexon 15y ago
  The point is to sharpen your sales skills and realise that experimentation and refinement is the key to developing a good sales strategy. This is like saying the point in picking up trash at the highway will be refining your work ethic. Sure it helps, but you could be doing something more efficient. Note how he says to find something that is a "commodity". A commodity by definition is a product that fungible, which means for those of you who haven't taken Econ 101, no one cares who they get it from, they only care about how cheap it is. This tells me that Jason Fried doesn't know what he is talking about even though he made everyone's favorite Ruby on Rails company.
  - billpatrianakos 15y ago
    I disagree. I mean like people have already mentioned, it's all about getting some practice and not really being profitable. You could think of it as the opportunity cost (hopefully I'm using that term right as I'm no Econ guy either). You lose a little money for the opportunity to become really good at making more later (or maybe you'll defy the odds and actually profit). And it doesn't have to be eBay. Any kind of low risk practice really. I don't really think your comment on picking up trash to improve work ethic really fits. It really doesn't matter how you practice as long as you do it. For those of us already in business we could simply practice this using our own businesses to experiment. We pick a product, service, or just some smaller, lower risk aspect of our business that we feel comfortable playing with and then charge more, less, or change the pricing model altogether. I think his post makes total sense in these terms and I doubt he means we should literally sell iPods. It's just a nice example. He probably did use commodity wrong (it's debatable, iPods can be a commodity as some would rather get a deal than get a brand new one from the Apple store) but it wasn't a huge error. All in all, it's hard to tell you that you're wrong because you make total sense but at the same time I also think you're reading into this a bit much and maybe taking what he says too literally?
  - brc 15y ago
    If you're a lazy person with no work ethic, pickup up trash will improve that. That is inarguable. I think you're just trying to be difficult because you've posted that you don't like the author. Fair enough, you don't have to like him or even agree with him. But I think you understand the point by now.
    - codexon 15y ago
      I am not arguing about this because he is Jason Fried. I am arguing about it because this is bad advice.
      - alexwolfe 15y ago
        You haven't made a strong case for why this is bad advice in spite of the overwhelming comments showing why this is good advice. I suggest rereading the article again. If you still don't understand what the point is, try rereading again.
alexwolfe 15y ago
I think there is a lesson in there somewhere, perhaps you're just missing it. Instead of trying to counter his points, try extracting what you can from it. In the long run this will help you a lot more than just pointing out things you don't like.
- codexon 15y ago
  I think there is a lesson in there somewhere, perhaps you're just missing it. Please point out the lesson instead of a bunch of handwaving to save face for Jason Fried.
  - andy_boot 15y ago
    The lesson is that you are learning _sales_. You are learning what does and does not work. When you try that with a real project (ie your business) you will have already learned a lot from repeatedly selling an ipod using different methods on ebay.
    - 0x44 15y ago
      That assumes that every sale is identical and that the lessons one need learn to make a $150,000.00 sale are identical to those one need learn to sell something for $150.00.
      - jeremymcanally 15y ago
        The basic principles do apply for the most part. I think that's why most people suck at sales. They think that there's some voodoo once you get above $1,000 or $100,000 and learning anything about sales at a level below that just isn't worth it. False. It's all basically the same ideas just applied differently at varying scales.
      - brc 15y ago
        Believe me, there is a lot more overlap in closing a $15.00 and $150,000 sale than most people realise. The key problem for most people is that they are coming from a base of zero - ie, have never sold anything in their life - is that they can't bring themselves to ask for the sale. A lot of people are uncomfortable with sales transaction beyond those which require you to walk to a register and present goods for purchase. A lot of people have a baked-in attitude that money is evil and trying to make it is a dirty business. All these things have to be overcome to be successful as an entrepreneur. Practicing selling on ebay requires you to write copy where you ask for the sale. Closing a $150,000 sale requires you to ask for the sale. Both sales require you to communicate with your buyer, to know your subject, to write clearly and to know when you are wasting your time. Every sale is not identical, even on ebay, because each time a new customer appears with different needs and a different level of understanding. I once bought a bulk lot of electronic equipment at live auction, then sold all the individual pieces on ebay, making a tidy little profit. This predated my efforts to sell anything online, and I learnt an enormous amount. I learnt that some people will pay silly prices for things, maybe because they need it right now, maybe because they live remotely and can't drive to the shop, maybe because they don't know the value of things. I learnt how to write copy that got the point across, communicated my trustworthiness as a seller, and yet communicated the important details without reading like a spec sheet. I even managed to sell a clearly broken LCD as a bet with one of my friends, who bet me I could sell it, and I bet nobody would buy it. Someone paid me $40 for an LCD with a massive crack and bleeding in it. I have no idea why - perhaps they wanted the case or some other part of it. I lost that bet and learnt a good lesson in the meantime, which is don't presume to know who or what your market is. And that selling, like any other skill, requires repetition, practice and learning to get good at it.
mootothemax 15y ago
This advice is horribly outdated stuff from the 90's. With Ebay and Paypal fees eating up at least 10% of your earnings, it is highly unlikely you can just resell iPods or anything else on Ebay and make a profit. You're missing a trick. A couple of years ago, I spent time either buying items on the US eBay and reselling them on the European sites (specifically, items without grey-market issues), or buying items in bulk (e.g. Sim Cards) and selling them individually. I wasn't earning huge amounts of money, but as per the suggestion, I learned an awful lot about basic sales. It's not like, e.g., Sim cards aren't a competitive market, right? ;-)
- codexon 15y ago
  So you need to spend hours and lose money on Ebay to learn the concept of bulk discounts? Something that you could do by visiting any supermarket?
nikcub 15y ago
there is currency and sales tax arbitrage opportunities
danmaz74 15y ago
The point isn't earning money, but learning to sell, just at the cost of fees. And where does the risk of "losing all the money you've invested" come from? If they bring the fees to 100%?
- mseebach 15y ago
  > And where does the risk of "losing all the money you've invested" come from? There's usually a window between shipping the item and receiving payment. Also, there's the risk the client will file a claim against you and get PayPal to side with him.
- codexon 15y ago
  Take it from someone who has bought and sold on Ebay recently. The point is that you won't even be selling at the cost of the fees. Needing to make at least 10% profit due to Paypal and Ebay fees is a huge obstacle unless you are buying in bulk. In this case you are assuming a huge amount of risk for a 5-10% discount because you are probably buying 100s at a time.
pnathan 15y ago
Well, if your local Craigslist is operating with a decent volume, you can use that. :)

by codexon 15y ago

This advice is horribly outdated stuff from the 90's. With Ebay and Paypal fees eating up at least 10% of your earnings, it is highly unlikely you can just resell iPods or anything else on Ebay and make a profit. "I love doing this, because there's no real risk involved." No real risk except losing all the money you've invested and wasting a lot of time making Ebay entries and repeatedly learning how to pack and ship.

cantbecool 15y ago

I agree. Ebay, Amazon, and Paypal eat up every penny of profit that you would make as a reseller.

mootothemax 15y ago
I agree. Ebay, Amazon, and Paypal eat up every penny of profit that you would make as a reseller So all those resellers on eBay are losing money? And distributors lose all of theirs to credit card fees as well?

brc 15y ago

The idea is not to make money, well, not in the sense of making earnings from it. You're not meant to take it literally as in 'make money from reselling stuff on ebay'. Of course you lose in the transaction fees (it also mentions craigslist). Of course you're not going to make real money doing this. The point is to sharpen your sales skills and realise that experimentation and refinement is the key to developing a good sales strategy. It goes back to the central theme of the piece, which is to continually drum on things - practising all the time. Of course drumming on the steering wheel isn't applicable to playing in a band, except that it's all mental stimulation and practice of sorts.

codexon 15y ago
The point is to sharpen your sales skills and realise that experimentation and refinement is the key to developing a good sales strategy. This is like saying the point in picking up trash at the highway will be refining your work ethic. Sure it helps, but you could be doing something more efficient. Note how he says to find something that is a "commodity". A commodity by definition is a product that fungible, which means for those of you who haven't taken Econ 101, no one cares who they get it from, they only care about how cheap it is. This tells me that Jason Fried doesn't know what he is talking about even though he made everyone's favorite Ruby on Rails company.
- billpatrianakos 15y ago
  I disagree. I mean like people have already mentioned, it's all about getting some practice and not really being profitable. You could think of it as the opportunity cost (hopefully I'm using that term right as I'm no Econ guy either). You lose a little money for the opportunity to become really good at making more later (or maybe you'll defy the odds and actually profit). And it doesn't have to be eBay. Any kind of low risk practice really. I don't really think your comment on picking up trash to improve work ethic really fits. It really doesn't matter how you practice as long as you do it. For those of us already in business we could simply practice this using our own businesses to experiment. We pick a product, service, or just some smaller, lower risk aspect of our business that we feel comfortable playing with and then charge more, less, or change the pricing model altogether. I think his post makes total sense in these terms and I doubt he means we should literally sell iPods. It's just a nice example. He probably did use commodity wrong (it's debatable, iPods can be a commodity as some would rather get a deal than get a brand new one from the Apple store) but it wasn't a huge error. All in all, it's hard to tell you that you're wrong because you make total sense but at the same time I also think you're reading into this a bit much and maybe taking what he says too literally?
- brc 15y ago
  If you're a lazy person with no work ethic, pickup up trash will improve that. That is inarguable. I think you're just trying to be difficult because you've posted that you don't like the author. Fair enough, you don't have to like him or even agree with him. But I think you understand the point by now.
  - codexon 15y ago
    I am not arguing about this because he is Jason Fried. I am arguing about it because this is bad advice.
    - alexwolfe 15y ago
      You haven't made a strong case for why this is bad advice in spite of the overwhelming comments showing why this is good advice. I suggest rereading the article again. If you still don't understand what the point is, try rereading again.

alexwolfe 15y ago

I think there is a lesson in there somewhere, perhaps you're just missing it. Instead of trying to counter his points, try extracting what you can from it. In the long run this will help you a lot more than just pointing out things you don't like.

codexon 15y ago
I think there is a lesson in there somewhere, perhaps you're just missing it. Please point out the lesson instead of a bunch of handwaving to save face for Jason Fried.
- andy_boot 15y ago
  The lesson is that you are learning _sales_. You are learning what does and does not work. When you try that with a real project (ie your business) you will have already learned a lot from repeatedly selling an ipod using different methods on ebay.
  - 0x44 15y ago
    That assumes that every sale is identical and that the lessons one need learn to make a $150,000.00 sale are identical to those one need learn to sell something for $150.00.
    - jeremymcanally 15y ago
      The basic principles do apply for the most part. I think that's why most people suck at sales. They think that there's some voodoo once you get above $1,000 or $100,000 and learning anything about sales at a level below that just isn't worth it. False. It's all basically the same ideas just applied differently at varying scales.
    - brc 15y ago
      Believe me, there is a lot more overlap in closing a $15.00 and $150,000 sale than most people realise. The key problem for most people is that they are coming from a base of zero - ie, have never sold anything in their life - is that they can't bring themselves to ask for the sale. A lot of people are uncomfortable with sales transaction beyond those which require you to walk to a register and present goods for purchase. A lot of people have a baked-in attitude that money is evil and trying to make it is a dirty business. All these things have to be overcome to be successful as an entrepreneur. Practicing selling on ebay requires you to write copy where you ask for the sale. Closing a $150,000 sale requires you to ask for the sale. Both sales require you to communicate with your buyer, to know your subject, to write clearly and to know when you are wasting your time. Every sale is not identical, even on ebay, because each time a new customer appears with different needs and a different level of understanding. I once bought a bulk lot of electronic equipment at live auction, then sold all the individual pieces on ebay, making a tidy little profit. This predated my efforts to sell anything online, and I learnt an enormous amount. I learnt that some people will pay silly prices for things, maybe because they need it right now, maybe because they live remotely and can't drive to the shop, maybe because they don't know the value of things. I learnt how to write copy that got the point across, communicated my trustworthiness as a seller, and yet communicated the important details without reading like a spec sheet. I even managed to sell a clearly broken LCD as a bet with one of my friends, who bet me I could sell it, and I bet nobody would buy it. Someone paid me $40 for an LCD with a massive crack and bleeding in it. I have no idea why - perhaps they wanted the case or some other part of it. I lost that bet and learnt a good lesson in the meantime, which is don't presume to know who or what your market is. And that selling, like any other skill, requires repetition, practice and learning to get good at it.

mootothemax 15y ago

This advice is horribly outdated stuff from the 90's. With Ebay and Paypal fees eating up at least 10% of your earnings, it is highly unlikely you can just resell iPods or anything else on Ebay and make a profit. You're missing a trick. A couple of years ago, I spent time either buying items on the US eBay and reselling them on the European sites (specifically, items without grey-market issues), or buying items in bulk (e.g. Sim Cards) and selling them individually. I wasn't earning huge amounts of money, but as per the suggestion, I learned an awful lot about basic sales. It's not like, e.g., Sim cards aren't a competitive market, right? ;-)

codexon 15y ago
So you need to spend hours and lose money on Ebay to learn the concept of bulk discounts? Something that you could do by visiting any supermarket?

nikcub 15y ago

there is currency and sales tax arbitrage opportunities

danmaz74 15y ago

The point isn't earning money, but learning to sell, just at the cost of fees. And where does the risk of "losing all the money you've invested" come from? If they bring the fees to 100%?

mseebach 15y ago
> And where does the risk of "losing all the money you've invested" come from? There's usually a window between shipping the item and receiving payment. Also, there's the risk the client will file a claim against you and get PayPal to side with him.
codexon 15y ago
Take it from someone who has bought and sold on Ebay recently. The point is that you won't even be selling at the cost of the fees. Needing to make at least 10% profit due to Paypal and Ebay fees is a huge obstacle unless you are buying in bulk. In this case you are assuming a huge amount of risk for a 5-10% discount because you are probably buying 100s at a time.

pnathan 15y ago

Well, if your local Craigslist is operating with a decent volume, you can use that. :)