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How big of a problem is this in the states? In Europe, nobody I know, and I really mean I don’t know one single person that uses SMS or SMS-like apps like iMess

How big of a problem is this in the states? In Europe, nobody I know, and I really mean I don’t know one single person that uses SMS or SMS-like apps like iMessage. If I open my messages app, I only have there my 2FA messages. It’s either WhatsApp or Signal

izacus 4y ago
That is not true at all. Even close, why does someone always spew this stuff here? There's billions of SMS messages delivered every day in Europe - from businesses to people who don't have Facebooks WhatsApp/Messenger preinstalled. Why is it so hard to understand that your little life bubble isn't the whole world?
- ratg13 4y ago
  I've lived many places in Europe and I'd say it's accurate. It's not that text messages aren't sent, it's just that they are only ever a fallback for when primary communication channels are not available. Pretty much everyone's SMSes are just MFA codes, "your pizza is ready", "your package is delivered", and so on. Almost nobody that talks to each other regularly uses SMS.
  - izacus 4y ago
    Again, that is nowhere near true and it's easy to verify. And we didn't even get to the point that the communications platform used instead of an open standard is owned by a single corporation - Facebook.
    - marginalia_nu 4y ago
      Really? I'm yet another European who only ever gets SMS from my elderly mother, for 2FA (usually only when dealing with American companies), parcel deliveries, and so on. Oh, and spam and frauds, that's like 75% of the messages I get.
      - hulitu 4y ago
        Come to Germany. Enjoy the power of digital communication. I work in a town close to the city center in a new building and i have to go to a certain window to be able to talk on the phone. To have cellular data i have to go out of the building.
        kioleanu 4y ago
        I had the same problem when using Aldi Talk, switched to Telekom and it's much better, but I am at the edge of the coverage area. I've seen it on the phones of the people that were visting me that Vodafone works much better in the house, but I don't want to work with them
        pjmlp 4y ago
        Isn't it great only being able to use data plans on the train when they stop at a station?
      - arinlen 4y ago
        > I'm yet another European who only ever gets SMS from my elderly mother, for 2FA (usually only when dealing with American companies), parcel deliveries, and so on. I'm yet another European and even though apps like WhatsApp and Signal are very popular, SMS is still used very often. Apps like WhatsApp do have an advantage like better UX, group chat, better allowlists, online presence status indicators, multimedia support, and multi-platform support.
    - redox99 4y ago
      Can you show such verification? I'm from Argentina and here absolutely nobody uses SMS. As parent said, it's only used for 2FA, delivery notifications, etc (although some companies here do 2FA with whatsapp too).
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - kioleanu 4y ago
      I am also very interested in data to support your claim. I offered my anecdotical experience and you're saying (quite aggressively) that that is objectively not true. Can you please provide a comparison between the # of messages sent as SMS and messages sent through Whatsapp and other services?
  - arinlen 4y ago
    > Almost nobody that talks to each other regularly uses SMS. OP claims no one uses SMS at, and your reply was "I agree, no one uses SMS except for all these reasons they message all the time". Also, it makes no sense to claim that no one uses SMS just because some people also use another means of communication like WhatsApp or email. It would make as much sense as claiming no one uses WhatsApp because they spend more time on Instagram or Twitter.
- achow 4y ago
  OP is saying in context of "Grandma" and in social context - "Grandma" getting singled out because of her life choices (Android) in 1:1 chats with another human or in groups. > ...'from businesses to people'.. You see the problem in your comment?
- sieabahlpark 4y ago
- isaacfrond 4y ago
  [citation needed] person to person sms is pretty close to zero here as well
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  Nobody in Europe is using SMS for communication, because it is bloody expensive.
  - 988747 4y ago
    What? SMS and voice calls are free in most plans. I agree that these times people communicate over Facebook Messenger or WhatsApp much more than through SMS but that has nothing to do with cost.
    - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
      Maybe for you, my SMS are over the top, because I am refusing to be tied up to operator via some monthly subscription.
  - ideaoverload 4y ago
    In Poland I pay flat monthly rate for all in-country calls and SMSes. It is internet usage that you pay more when going over certain limit. SMSes being expensive would be true story maybe 10 or 15 years ago.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Where in Europe? Most pre-paid packages have tons of free SMS, mine is around 5000 per month.
    - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
      I am paying 10 cents per each.
pacificmint 4y ago
As a data point: Probably 90% of my messages are on iMessage. I have one friend group that has a telegram chat. Almost nothing in WhatsApp or Signal.
adhesive_wombat 4y ago
Yep, 18 out of 20 of my top threads are delivery updates, 2FA, service updates (ISP data rollovers, for example), or advertising. One of the "real" threads moved to WhatsApp after a couple of messages and the other was me forwarding one of the delivery updates from within the SMS app. Sadly everyone I know is on WhatsApp and no one uses Signal.
hulitu 4y ago
There are regions in Central Europe where cellular data is not available.
- greatgib 4y ago
  Your argument is very weird. Most of the time, if you are in location without cellular data, it is that you don't even have a good cellular coverage. In that case, especially, people are used to always use wifi and so use WhatsApp, signal, telegram, Facebook, instead of unreliable sms. Also, if the goal is to have rich communication, like sending video and photo. If your network provider does not cover you for cellular data, I don't see how, the same content will go through anyway as it needs data... The only difference of RCS compared to messaging service is that you use your phone number and the service is provided by your mobile telecom provider, but otherwise it is technically similar. One last point is that, here, in Europe, people does not trust phone number as being a permanent reliable identification. Not so long ago people had to change numbers regularly when changing of provider or of offer.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Welcome to train travel in Germany.
  - hulitu 4y ago
    > Your argument is very weird. Most of the time, if you are in location without cellular data, it is that you don't even have a good cellular coverage. In that case, especially, people are used to always use wifi and so use WhatsApp, signal, telegram, Facebook, instead of unreliable sms. I have WiFi only at home. At work i don't. Also there are shops where there is no WiFi nor cellular connection.
satyamkapoor 4y ago
Or Messenger. Strangely, Messenger is more popular than WhatsApp in Europe. Got the context though
- arinlen 4y ago
  > Or Messenger. Strangely, Messenger is more popular than WhatsApp in Europe. Got the context though I lived in Europe all my life and never heard of Messenger. WhatsApp is pervasive. We get the WhatsApp logo shoved in our faces even while casually watching tv. Even TV programs and state institutions have WhatsApp contacts.
  - Symbiote 4y ago
    Don't generalise all of Europe without checking the statistics. Messenger is the most popular chat app in France, Scandinavia and most of Eastern Europe. WhatsApp has the rest. Except Viber in Serbia and Belarus. (Messenger is Facebook Messenger, everyone who has a Facebook account has it, though not necessarily in use on their phone.)
    - arinlen 4y ago
      > Don't generalise all of Europe without checking the statistics. If you admit that WhatsApp is the dominant messaging app in the whole Europe except for a hand-full of countries, and still in spite of your admission you still try to pass Messenger as ubiquitous in Europe, you shouldn't be talking about generalizations.
      - Symbiote 4y ago
        I didn't "admit" anything, and I didn't claim Messenger was ubiquitous.
rdhatt 4y ago
This question comes up commonly on reddit —- yes iMessage is very popular here. In my experience - Facebook Messenger, Snapchat, Discord are the top messaging services. Whatsapp is not uncommon to be sure, but I would wager a significant portion of users in the United States have it installed because they chat with people overseas. Signal & Telegram are pretty small userbases.
jcelerier 4y ago
In France I have plain SMS texts with 9 different people (friends &family) if I look back just to mid-August.
shapefrog 4y ago
> I only have there my 2FA messages Inbound texts from my bank etc come up as grey - no different to inbound iMessage so never actually noticed it.
pjmlp 4y ago
I do plenty of SMS, not everyone is on WhatsApp or Viber. Then again I only use iDevices at work, so whatever.
wooque 4y ago
This, I don't remember last time I used SMS, everyone is using Viber, WhatsApp, Telegram here, Facebook Messenger is also strong.

izacus 4y ago

That is not true at all. Even close, why does someone always spew this stuff here? There's billions of SMS messages delivered every day in Europe - from businesses to people who don't have Facebooks WhatsApp/Messenger preinstalled. Why is it so hard to understand that your little life bubble isn't the whole world?

ratg13 4y ago
I've lived many places in Europe and I'd say it's accurate. It's not that text messages aren't sent, it's just that they are only ever a fallback for when primary communication channels are not available. Pretty much everyone's SMSes are just MFA codes, "your pizza is ready", "your package is delivered", and so on. Almost nobody that talks to each other regularly uses SMS.
- izacus 4y ago
  Again, that is nowhere near true and it's easy to verify. And we didn't even get to the point that the communications platform used instead of an open standard is owned by a single corporation - Facebook.
  - marginalia_nu 4y ago
    Really? I'm yet another European who only ever gets SMS from my elderly mother, for 2FA (usually only when dealing with American companies), parcel deliveries, and so on. Oh, and spam and frauds, that's like 75% of the messages I get.
    - hulitu 4y ago
      Come to Germany. Enjoy the power of digital communication. I work in a town close to the city center in a new building and i have to go to a certain window to be able to talk on the phone. To have cellular data i have to go out of the building.
      - kioleanu 4y ago
        I had the same problem when using Aldi Talk, switched to Telekom and it's much better, but I am at the edge of the coverage area. I've seen it on the phones of the people that were visting me that Vodafone works much better in the house, but I don't want to work with them
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        Isn't it great only being able to use data plans on the train when they stop at a station?
    - arinlen 4y ago
      > I'm yet another European who only ever gets SMS from my elderly mother, for 2FA (usually only when dealing with American companies), parcel deliveries, and so on. I'm yet another European and even though apps like WhatsApp and Signal are very popular, SMS is still used very often. Apps like WhatsApp do have an advantage like better UX, group chat, better allowlists, online presence status indicators, multimedia support, and multi-platform support.
  - redox99 4y ago
    Can you show such verification? I'm from Argentina and here absolutely nobody uses SMS. As parent said, it's only used for 2FA, delivery notifications, etc (although some companies here do 2FA with whatsapp too).
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - kioleanu 4y ago
    I am also very interested in data to support your claim. I offered my anecdotical experience and you're saying (quite aggressively) that that is objectively not true. Can you please provide a comparison between the # of messages sent as SMS and messages sent through Whatsapp and other services?
- arinlen 4y ago
  > Almost nobody that talks to each other regularly uses SMS. OP claims no one uses SMS at, and your reply was "I agree, no one uses SMS except for all these reasons they message all the time". Also, it makes no sense to claim that no one uses SMS just because some people also use another means of communication like WhatsApp or email. It would make as much sense as claiming no one uses WhatsApp because they spend more time on Instagram or Twitter.
achow 4y ago
OP is saying in context of "Grandma" and in social context - "Grandma" getting singled out because of her life choices (Android) in 1:1 chats with another human or in groups. > ...'from businesses to people'.. You see the problem in your comment?
sieabahlpark 4y ago
isaacfrond 4y ago
[citation needed] person to person sms is pretty close to zero here as well
TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
Nobody in Europe is using SMS for communication, because it is bloody expensive.
- 988747 4y ago
  What? SMS and voice calls are free in most plans. I agree that these times people communicate over Facebook Messenger or WhatsApp much more than through SMS but that has nothing to do with cost.
  - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
    Maybe for you, my SMS are over the top, because I am refusing to be tied up to operator via some monthly subscription.
- ideaoverload 4y ago
  In Poland I pay flat monthly rate for all in-country calls and SMSes. It is internet usage that you pay more when going over certain limit. SMSes being expensive would be true story maybe 10 or 15 years ago.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Where in Europe? Most pre-paid packages have tons of free SMS, mine is around 5000 per month.
  - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
    I am paying 10 cents per each.

pacificmint 4y ago

As a data point: Probably 90% of my messages are on iMessage. I have one friend group that has a telegram chat. Almost nothing in WhatsApp or Signal.

adhesive_wombat 4y ago

Yep, 18 out of 20 of my top threads are delivery updates, 2FA, service updates (ISP data rollovers, for example), or advertising. One of the "real" threads moved to WhatsApp after a couple of messages and the other was me forwarding one of the delivery updates from within the SMS app. Sadly everyone I know is on WhatsApp and no one uses Signal.

hulitu 4y ago

There are regions in Central Europe where cellular data is not available.

greatgib 4y ago
Your argument is very weird. Most of the time, if you are in location without cellular data, it is that you don't even have a good cellular coverage. In that case, especially, people are used to always use wifi and so use WhatsApp, signal, telegram, Facebook, instead of unreliable sms. Also, if the goal is to have rich communication, like sending video and photo. If your network provider does not cover you for cellular data, I don't see how, the same content will go through anyway as it needs data... The only difference of RCS compared to messaging service is that you use your phone number and the service is provided by your mobile telecom provider, but otherwise it is technically similar. One last point is that, here, in Europe, people does not trust phone number as being a permanent reliable identification. Not so long ago people had to change numbers regularly when changing of provider or of offer.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Welcome to train travel in Germany.
- hulitu 4y ago
  > Your argument is very weird. Most of the time, if you are in location without cellular data, it is that you don't even have a good cellular coverage. In that case, especially, people are used to always use wifi and so use WhatsApp, signal, telegram, Facebook, instead of unreliable sms. I have WiFi only at home. At work i don't. Also there are shops where there is no WiFi nor cellular connection.

satyamkapoor 4y ago

Or Messenger. Strangely, Messenger is more popular than WhatsApp in Europe. Got the context though

arinlen 4y ago
> Or Messenger. Strangely, Messenger is more popular than WhatsApp in Europe. Got the context though I lived in Europe all my life and never heard of Messenger. WhatsApp is pervasive. We get the WhatsApp logo shoved in our faces even while casually watching tv. Even TV programs and state institutions have WhatsApp contacts.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  Don't generalise all of Europe without checking the statistics. Messenger is the most popular chat app in France, Scandinavia and most of Eastern Europe. WhatsApp has the rest. Except Viber in Serbia and Belarus. (Messenger is Facebook Messenger, everyone who has a Facebook account has it, though not necessarily in use on their phone.)
  - arinlen 4y ago
    > Don't generalise all of Europe without checking the statistics. If you admit that WhatsApp is the dominant messaging app in the whole Europe except for a hand-full of countries, and still in spite of your admission you still try to pass Messenger as ubiquitous in Europe, you shouldn't be talking about generalizations.
    - Symbiote 4y ago
      I didn't "admit" anything, and I didn't claim Messenger was ubiquitous.

rdhatt 4y ago

This question comes up commonly on reddit —- yes iMessage is very popular here. In my experience - Facebook Messenger, Snapchat, Discord are the top messaging services. Whatsapp is not uncommon to be sure, but I would wager a significant portion of users in the United States have it installed because they chat with people overseas. Signal & Telegram are pretty small userbases.

jcelerier 4y ago

In France I have plain SMS texts with 9 different people (friends &family) if I look back just to mid-August.

shapefrog 4y ago

> I only have there my 2FA messages Inbound texts from my bank etc come up as grey - no different to inbound iMessage so never actually noticed it.

pjmlp 4y ago

I do plenty of SMS, not everyone is on WhatsApp or Viber. Then again I only use iDevices at work, so whatever.

wooque 4y ago

This, I don't remember last time I used SMS, everyone is using Viber, WhatsApp, Telegram here, Facebook Messenger is also strong.