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> The primary commercial Unix implementation is nowadays Oracle Solaris. Surely it's macOS? The total install base of Solaris must be a rounding error compared
by jmillikin 4y ago
> The primary commercial Unix implementation is nowadays Oracle Solaris.
Surely it's macOS? The total install base of Solaris must be a rounding error compared to the number of Macbooks sold daily.
- 3np 4y agoNote that most of this text is from at least 2012 (check the wiki history, which starts in 2013 with an indication that this is an import of existing content). Previous recent discussion on that specific quote: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30929464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30929464
- pdpi 4y agoSolaris is a SysV Unix, whereas macOS is a BSD, not sure they were thinking of that distinction. Anyhow, when you’re talking about mounting /usr from the network, it’s safe to assume server workloads where macOS is simply nonexistent.
- jmillikin 4y agoSystem V and BSD are both considered "UNIX", in that they descend directly from the original AT&T UNIX (v6). In some senses macOS is more of a UNIX than Solaris is, as it is certified by The Open Group and Solaris is currently not: https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/ https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/
- stolen_biscuit 4y agoIt would absolutely be MacOS but I don't think that's what they mean by commercial Unix implementation really
- skissane 4y agoBut what do they mean by that phrase then? I think a lot of people who think "macOS isn't Unix" (or similarly, "z/OS isn't Unix") aren't aware of the legal status of the term "Unix" – that it is a registered trademark owned by The Open Group, and legally a trademark means whatever the trademark owner says it means – and The Open Group is very clear that "Unix" means any system, irrespective of its marketing or heritage or other functions, which passes their test suites and whose vendor pays the licensing fee.
- nine_k 4y agoMacOS is a commercial OS that happens to have a Unix substrate, but does not tend to show it too much. The Unix part is an implementation detail. much like the CPU architecture. It is not marketed as a Unix workstation, much like Android phones are not marketed as Linux handhelds.
- ryukafalz 4y agoUnless I’m mistaken I believe Apple at least used to market it as UNIX?
- jeffbee 4y agoYup. "Sends other UNIX boxes to /dev/null" https://www.brainmapping.org/MarkCohen/UNIXad.pdf https://www.brainmapping.org/MarkCohen/UNIXad.pdf
- sgjohnson 4y agoFun fact, this is from the times when macOS (Mac OS X back then) wasn't Unix compliant, and it caused a $200mn lawsuit. HN thread on this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29984016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29984016 And for a couple of years after they sorted out the compliance, they really pushed UNIX in their advertising materials. After all, they paid more than $20mn to sort out compliance.
- WastingMyTime89 4y agoApple has macOS registered by the Open Group as UNIX 03 compliant. You can hardly be more Unix than that.
- randomdata 4y ago> The Unix part is an implementation detail. UNIX is a certification. macOS is certified. Solaris is not and hasn't been since 2020.
- kergonath 4y ago> MacOS is a commercial OS that happens to have a Unix substrate I am not sure what you’re implying. There always have been a lot of UNIXes that were “commercial OS”. Historically, the free branches of the UNIX family tree have been way out-numbered by commercial distributions. > but does not tend to show it too much That does not really matter (besides the fact that the terminal has always been there). The fact that there is a GUI shell on top does not change the architecture of the OS. > The Unix part is an implementation detail. These days, UNIX is a certification. Otherwise it refers to the architecture and origins of the OS, from the initial AT&T UNIX. The only purity test is the certification. > It is not marketed as a Unix workstation, much like Android phones are not marketed as Linux handhelds. How it is marketed and what it actually is are orthogonal concepts. It is UNIX, whether this annoys some people or not.
- lenkite 4y agoBy that metric, it will be Android. The total install base of Macbooks is a rounding error compared to the number of Android phones. (>3 billion)
- Wowfunhappy 4y agoI don't think Android is an officially licensed version of UNIX though? (I wouldn't normally nitpick, but I assumed that's what was meant by "commercial UNIX".)
- lenkite 4y agoI don't get it. Isn't Darwin open source ?
- agarren 4y agomacOS as of Leopard is “certified UNIX” (Single Unix Specv3). Darwin is the “Unix core” that macOS is built on, but it hasn’t been certified by itself[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)
- sharikous 4y agoDarwin is just a bunch of source code dumps at this point. Gone are the days when Apple provided an actual bootable ISO.
- mechanical_bear 4y agoDid they ever?
- sharikous 4y agoyes, approximately until 10.4 Tiger: https://web.archive.org/web/20100303160410/http://www.opensource.apple.com/static/iso/ https://web.archive.org/web/20100303160410/http://www.openso... (importantly those links still work, even outside of the Wayback machine)
- tyingq 4y ago"Commercial Unix" was a defacto phrase used by places like Gartner and IDG that meant the crop of things like AIX, HPUX, Solaris, and so on. It always excluded Linux and MacOS. Google for phrases like "idg unix shipments solaris" and you'll see some of the context from that time period.
- jbverschoor 4y agoMacOS X was paid software until about 10 years ago
- the_why_of_y 4y agoIt still is. It's just bundled with the hardware, and always has been. What changed is that upgrades used to cost money, and now don't. You know it's an upgrade because you aren't allowed to install it on anything that didn't ship with MacOS X out of the factory.
- IncRnd 4y agoTaken in combination, the two words "Commercial Unix" historically refer to Unix from Sun Microsystems, HP, IBM or SGI. They are not a reference to all variants of Unix that are sold.
- tyingq 4y agoI'm not saying it's a technically correct term, just what it did historically mean.
- type0 4y agoYou don't say, so can I just buy MacOS to install on my own hardware?
- Macha 4y agomacOS does its own thing with filesystem layouts so is not relevant to this discussion, surely?
- sgjohnson 4y agoAnd by extension iOS, which is also Darwin.