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What if consciousness, like intelligence is not only not clearly defined, but actively retreats as science advances upon it's supposed definition. Consciousnes

What if consciousness, like intelligence is not only not clearly defined, but actively retreats as science advances upon it's supposed definition. Consciousness isn't magic, it's metacognition. It's thinking about thinking. You have a finite (and not allways constant) amount of layers of recursion to your metacognition and you can hack symbolic representation to get nigh infinite recursion for very specific cases. Other animals (and likely some computational processes) have a nonzero amount consciousness. It's unlikely we will be able to quantize it anytime soon. Artificial Consciousness isn't a thing because consciousness only makes for less efficient machine slave labor, it's the quality of humans we are making computers to actively avoid dealing with. Why, other than unwisely funded hubris and ego, would anybody try to make it?

blamestross 4y ago
Go read Blindsight, dispair, then realize consciousness is a decent intelligence bootstrapping mechanism that is likely convergent and common in the universe. Then wonder how quickly it will become vestigial, or if it already has.
- wudangmonk 4y ago
  I enjoyed the book but why add vampires to something that is supposed to be hard scifi that in theory aims to have some sort of scientific accuracy.
carrolldunham 4y ago
>It's thinking about thinking. Half of people talking about consciousness are not talking about that at all. They would call that self-consciousness or reflective consciousness. That is about what someone is experiencing. What many people are talking about is why someone (a material object) is experiencing anything at all.
- blamestross 4y ago
  I've noticed that. They really are talking about literally the opposite of what I posit consciousness to be. I'd love to convince them to find a different word but I'm not convinced I shouldn't be the one to ceede the term and find another.
- MattPalmer1086 4y ago
  Yes, this complete lack of agreement on terms is possibly the hardest problem in discussing it ;) I tend to use consciousness as the same as awareness really. Being awake and experiencing. This is where qualia are found, and is something I readily ascribe to most if not all animals, and even possibly other living things. I find the term self consciousness meaning meta cognition to be problematic, as many animals are aware of themselves as beings (e.g. recognise that a reflection is them). I don't think they can reflect on that much though. We support much higher levels of abstraction in thinking than other animals, and we can reflect on our own thoughts, including our self in that model. These are cognitive skills rather than being about awareness. I would say that an artificial intelligence can possess deep cognitive skills but have no awareness at all. Although it could have that too - I just don't see that as a requirement.

blamestross 4y ago

Go read Blindsight, dispair, then realize consciousness is a decent intelligence bootstrapping mechanism that is likely convergent and common in the universe. Then wonder how quickly it will become vestigial, or if it already has.

wudangmonk 4y ago
I enjoyed the book but why add vampires to something that is supposed to be hard scifi that in theory aims to have some sort of scientific accuracy.

carrolldunham 4y ago

>It's thinking about thinking. Half of people talking about consciousness are not talking about that at all. They would call that self-consciousness or reflective consciousness. That is about what someone is experiencing. What many people are talking about is why someone (a material object) is experiencing anything at all.

blamestross 4y ago
I've noticed that. They really are talking about literally the opposite of what I posit consciousness to be. I'd love to convince them to find a different word but I'm not convinced I shouldn't be the one to ceede the term and find another.
MattPalmer1086 4y ago
Yes, this complete lack of agreement on terms is possibly the hardest problem in discussing it ;) I tend to use consciousness as the same as awareness really. Being awake and experiencing. This is where qualia are found, and is something I readily ascribe to most if not all animals, and even possibly other living things. I find the term self consciousness meaning meta cognition to be problematic, as many animals are aware of themselves as beings (e.g. recognise that a reflection is them). I don't think they can reflect on that much though. We support much higher levels of abstraction in thinking than other animals, and we can reflect on our own thoughts, including our self in that model. These are cognitive skills rather than being about awareness. I would say that an artificial intelligence can possess deep cognitive skills but have no awareness at all. Although it could have that too - I just don't see that as a requirement.