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This isn't reasonable. Today on iPhone, even if you pay $100/year to be able to run unsigned code, you can't get a copy of Firefox running, because nobody maint

by jchw 4y ago

This isn't reasonable. Today on iPhone, even if you pay $100/year to be able to run unsigned code, you can't get a copy of Firefox running, because nobody maintains the port. That kind of crippling grasp on the ecosystem is difficult to tolerate, and simply nothing compared to what's going on with Google. Today with Pixel phones, you can secure boot third party OSes without even voiding your warranty. You can unlock the bootloader. Even if this ever were to go away, Android still has multiple ecosystems and you can sideload apps as long as your OEM doesn't disable this, and Google doesn't. Apple isn't getting more consumer friendly. iOS is less private than ever, not more, and Apple seems intent on making it worse; they dropped the needless CSAM debacle, but that doesn't mean it should be ignored. Apple has made their position clear: an iPhone is not your phone. It's Apple's phone. You may borrow it on their terms. The law may say otherwise, but Apple thwarts your attempts to work around it. Android is imperfect; it's definitely not good for privacy if you use stock ROMs, it's behind on security in many fronts, and Play Store lock-in has definitely put a damper on innovation. That having been said, though, at the end of the day, Google gives you options that lets you take control over the device. The future of being able to control your own devices is unclear with remote attestation once again on the horizon, but being able to control what software runs on your device to a decent degree is absolutely an important feature for me, especially after hoping and praying that Apple would eventually fix the problems I had with iOS. But they were not bugs to Apple, they were features, and Apple knows if people could run their own code, those features wouldn't work very well. That left a bad taste in my mouth. Until it's fixed, I don't think I can consider phones that Apple sells today as serious options as they are a different class of device to Android phones the way that a game console is a different class of device to a typical laptop.

freediver 4y ago
Which part isn't resonable? I was proposing a thought experiment in understanding motivation and the version of the future these companies are building towards.
- jchw 4y ago
  The reason why is because on iPhone, I can only hope and pray for things to get better, which I have been doing for three years; there aren't really any options if you don't like the intentional limitations of the iPhone. With the Pixel phone, I have options today and indefinitely, regardless of the motivations of Google. Comparing Google's motivations vs Apple's motivations is missing the bigger picture. It's not a panacea, but it's about as close as they come.
BuckRogers 4y ago
Reading your comment, my final thought was that essentially if you want to maintain another computer, similar to your desktop, buy an Android phone. Research and install your ROM of choice, route it and install the programs you want, and you are responsible to make sure it all works. If you don’t want yet another computer to maintain consuming hours of your time, buy an iPhone. I do use Android for my streaming set top boxes, because of that flexibility. Devices like the Fire TV are flexible, like having an energy efficient and much more affordable version of a PC. But for my phone, for such an essential device that just has to work, it’s too much to ask out of me.
- Bakary 4y ago
  You aren't wrong in a technical sense but the amount of effort to make it work is really overstated here. It shouldn't take more than a few hours tops for everything you are describing, not including the time spent choosing the phone of course. You have to compare it to the time lost with iOS as well, whether it's from missing apps/features or salary hours spent on the Apple ecosystem because of the lock-in.
  - BuckRogers 4y ago
    Your second paragraph is a bit of a stretch in my humble opinion. Missing apps and features, on iOS? I see. And salary hours? I was a long time android phone user. I used Cyanogenmod, which became Lineage. I was kind of left in a lurch once CM dropped support from my phone. Then I was using some truly obscure software. It doesn’t feel comfortable to use with banking apps. There used to be a good handful of distinct advantages for Android on phones. But today if anything important is missing, it’s more likely be missing on Android. Outside of someone who really wants FF with UBO. For example, if you buy a Sonos sound bar and want to use the room adjustment software, it only exists on iOS. Sonos can’t guarantee the quality of the microphone used to enable the software for Android. In regards to your first point, yes it may only take an hour or two if you know what you’re doing or have done it before. But most users are not going to be doing all of that on their phone. For me, I found that chasing secure and up-to-date software on android ended up being like duplicating my desktop PC. And I say that as someone who is an Android fan. Just for certain use cases. And by no means a partisan in this whole debate. It’s really just my experience as a software developer that has spent five years or more on each platform. I quite like the Samsung phones. If I went back, I would pick up one of those. I really like the Dex feature and the USB-C is mandatory. But there’s not much that personally draws me in from the points that you mentioned, the time and technical investment, any missing features or lock in.

by jchw 4y ago

freediver 4y ago

Which part isn't resonable? I was proposing a thought experiment in understanding motivation and the version of the future these companies are building towards.

jchw 4y ago
The reason why is because on iPhone, I can only hope and pray for things to get better, which I have been doing for three years; there aren't really any options if you don't like the intentional limitations of the iPhone. With the Pixel phone, I have options today and indefinitely, regardless of the motivations of Google. Comparing Google's motivations vs Apple's motivations is missing the bigger picture. It's not a panacea, but it's about as close as they come.

BuckRogers 4y ago

Reading your comment, my final thought was that essentially if you want to maintain another computer, similar to your desktop, buy an Android phone. Research and install your ROM of choice, route it and install the programs you want, and you are responsible to make sure it all works. If you don’t want yet another computer to maintain consuming hours of your time, buy an iPhone. I do use Android for my streaming set top boxes, because of that flexibility. Devices like the Fire TV are flexible, like having an energy efficient and much more affordable version of a PC. But for my phone, for such an essential device that just has to work, it’s too much to ask out of me.

Bakary 4y ago
You aren't wrong in a technical sense but the amount of effort to make it work is really overstated here. It shouldn't take more than a few hours tops for everything you are describing, not including the time spent choosing the phone of course. You have to compare it to the time lost with iOS as well, whether it's from missing apps/features or salary hours spent on the Apple ecosystem because of the lock-in.
- BuckRogers 4y ago
  Your second paragraph is a bit of a stretch in my humble opinion. Missing apps and features, on iOS? I see. And salary hours? I was a long time android phone user. I used Cyanogenmod, which became Lineage. I was kind of left in a lurch once CM dropped support from my phone. Then I was using some truly obscure software. It doesn’t feel comfortable to use with banking apps. There used to be a good handful of distinct advantages for Android on phones. But today if anything important is missing, it’s more likely be missing on Android. Outside of someone who really wants FF with UBO. For example, if you buy a Sonos sound bar and want to use the room adjustment software, it only exists on iOS. Sonos can’t guarantee the quality of the microphone used to enable the software for Android. In regards to your first point, yes it may only take an hour or two if you know what you’re doing or have done it before. But most users are not going to be doing all of that on their phone. For me, I found that chasing secure and up-to-date software on android ended up being like duplicating my desktop PC. And I say that as someone who is an Android fan. Just for certain use cases. And by no means a partisan in this whole debate. It’s really just my experience as a software developer that has spent five years or more on each platform. I quite like the Samsung phones. If I went back, I would pick up one of those. I really like the Dex feature and the USB-C is mandatory. But there’s not much that personally draws me in from the points that you mentioned, the time and technical investment, any missing features or lock in.