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While all this is true, one should look it also from a motivation standpoint. Why is Apple doing things it is doing and why is Google? That thought experiment

While all this is true, one should look it also from a motivation standpoint. Why is Apple doing things it is doing and why is Google? That thought experiment will help extrapolate the far-out future for both companies and the version of the future they are building towards.

jchw 4y ago
This isn't reasonable. Today on iPhone, even if you pay $100/year to be able to run unsigned code, you can't get a copy of Firefox running, because nobody maintains the port. That kind of crippling grasp on the ecosystem is difficult to tolerate, and simply nothing compared to what's going on with Google. Today with Pixel phones, you can secure boot third party OSes without even voiding your warranty. You can unlock the bootloader. Even if this ever were to go away, Android still has multiple ecosystems and you can sideload apps as long as your OEM doesn't disable this, and Google doesn't. Apple isn't getting more consumer friendly. iOS is less private than ever, not more, and Apple seems intent on making it worse; they dropped the needless CSAM debacle, but that doesn't mean it should be ignored. Apple has made their position clear: an iPhone is not your phone. It's Apple's phone. You may borrow it on their terms. The law may say otherwise, but Apple thwarts your attempts to work around it. Android is imperfect; it's definitely not good for privacy if you use stock ROMs, it's behind on security in many fronts, and Play Store lock-in has definitely put a damper on innovation. That having been said, though, at the end of the day, Google gives you options that lets you take control over the device. The future of being able to control your own devices is unclear with remote attestation once again on the horizon, but being able to control what software runs on your device to a decent degree is absolutely an important feature for me, especially after hoping and praying that Apple would eventually fix the problems I had with iOS. But they were not bugs to Apple, they were features, and Apple knows if people could run their own code, those features wouldn't work very well. That left a bad taste in my mouth. Until it's fixed, I don't think I can consider phones that Apple sells today as serious options as they are a different class of device to Android phones the way that a game console is a different class of device to a typical laptop.
- freediver 4y ago
  Which part isn't resonable? I was proposing a thought experiment in understanding motivation and the version of the future these companies are building towards.
  - jchw 4y ago
    The reason why is because on iPhone, I can only hope and pray for things to get better, which I have been doing for three years; there aren't really any options if you don't like the intentional limitations of the iPhone. With the Pixel phone, I have options today and indefinitely, regardless of the motivations of Google. Comparing Google's motivations vs Apple's motivations is missing the bigger picture. It's not a panacea, but it's about as close as they come.
- BuckRogers 4y ago
  Reading your comment, my final thought was that essentially if you want to maintain another computer, similar to your desktop, buy an Android phone. Research and install your ROM of choice, route it and install the programs you want, and you are responsible to make sure it all works. If you don’t want yet another computer to maintain consuming hours of your time, buy an iPhone. I do use Android for my streaming set top boxes, because of that flexibility. Devices like the Fire TV are flexible, like having an energy efficient and much more affordable version of a PC. But for my phone, for such an essential device that just has to work, it’s too much to ask out of me.
  - Bakary 4y ago
    You aren't wrong in a technical sense but the amount of effort to make it work is really overstated here. It shouldn't take more than a few hours tops for everything you are describing, not including the time spent choosing the phone of course. You have to compare it to the time lost with iOS as well, whether it's from missing apps/features or salary hours spent on the Apple ecosystem because of the lock-in.
    - 4y ago
kbenson 4y ago
It makes no sense to assume how companies will act in the far out future, as companies are not people and their motivations shift with management, investors, and markets. You can at best look at the motivation as an explanation of the short to medium term. Long-term, the company might be in entirely different hands. Look at Sun. Apply your strategy to Sun as of a few years before they went under and chunks were bought by Oracle. Sun's motivations meant very little in the end, only what they actually did (such as open sourcing things) survived.

jchw 4y ago

This isn't reasonable. Today on iPhone, even if you pay $100/year to be able to run unsigned code, you can't get a copy of Firefox running, because nobody maintains the port. That kind of crippling grasp on the ecosystem is difficult to tolerate, and simply nothing compared to what's going on with Google. Today with Pixel phones, you can secure boot third party OSes without even voiding your warranty. You can unlock the bootloader. Even if this ever were to go away, Android still has multiple ecosystems and you can sideload apps as long as your OEM doesn't disable this, and Google doesn't. Apple isn't getting more consumer friendly. iOS is less private than ever, not more, and Apple seems intent on making it worse; they dropped the needless CSAM debacle, but that doesn't mean it should be ignored. Apple has made their position clear: an iPhone is not your phone. It's Apple's phone. You may borrow it on their terms. The law may say otherwise, but Apple thwarts your attempts to work around it. Android is imperfect; it's definitely not good for privacy if you use stock ROMs, it's behind on security in many fronts, and Play Store lock-in has definitely put a damper on innovation. That having been said, though, at the end of the day, Google gives you options that lets you take control over the device. The future of being able to control your own devices is unclear with remote attestation once again on the horizon, but being able to control what software runs on your device to a decent degree is absolutely an important feature for me, especially after hoping and praying that Apple would eventually fix the problems I had with iOS. But they were not bugs to Apple, they were features, and Apple knows if people could run their own code, those features wouldn't work very well. That left a bad taste in my mouth. Until it's fixed, I don't think I can consider phones that Apple sells today as serious options as they are a different class of device to Android phones the way that a game console is a different class of device to a typical laptop.

freediver 4y ago
Which part isn't resonable? I was proposing a thought experiment in understanding motivation and the version of the future these companies are building towards.
- jchw 4y ago
  The reason why is because on iPhone, I can only hope and pray for things to get better, which I have been doing for three years; there aren't really any options if you don't like the intentional limitations of the iPhone. With the Pixel phone, I have options today and indefinitely, regardless of the motivations of Google. Comparing Google's motivations vs Apple's motivations is missing the bigger picture. It's not a panacea, but it's about as close as they come.
BuckRogers 4y ago
Reading your comment, my final thought was that essentially if you want to maintain another computer, similar to your desktop, buy an Android phone. Research and install your ROM of choice, route it and install the programs you want, and you are responsible to make sure it all works. If you don’t want yet another computer to maintain consuming hours of your time, buy an iPhone. I do use Android for my streaming set top boxes, because of that flexibility. Devices like the Fire TV are flexible, like having an energy efficient and much more affordable version of a PC. But for my phone, for such an essential device that just has to work, it’s too much to ask out of me.
- Bakary 4y ago
  You aren't wrong in a technical sense but the amount of effort to make it work is really overstated here. It shouldn't take more than a few hours tops for everything you are describing, not including the time spent choosing the phone of course. You have to compare it to the time lost with iOS as well, whether it's from missing apps/features or salary hours spent on the Apple ecosystem because of the lock-in.
  - 4y ago

kbenson 4y ago

It makes no sense to assume how companies will act in the far out future, as companies are not people and their motivations shift with management, investors, and markets. You can at best look at the motivation as an explanation of the short to medium term. Long-term, the company might be in entirely different hands. Look at Sun. Apply your strategy to Sun as of a few years before they went under and chunks were bought by Oracle. Sun's motivations meant very little in the end, only what they actually did (such as open sourcing things) survived.