5 ms·

While the substance of what you say may be true, I couldn't disagree more with the sentiment. If all your parents did was give you the opportunity to grow up s

by _dmxy 4y ago

While the substance of what you say may be true, I couldn't disagree more with the sentiment. If all your parents did was give you the opportunity to grow up stateside as opposed to some communist hellhole or third-world slum, that itself is worth a lifetime of gratitude that you can never hope to pay back. As hard as first generation parents may be on their kids, they have almost certainly endured through far worse in their childhood. Second generation immigrant millennials would have parents who grew during or in the aftermath of the Cultural Revolution, Indo-Pakistani War - under dangerous third world conditions with a daily struggle for food. Yes some of the crude comments they express may be excessively judgmental and even bigoted, but no more than their former compatriots back home. Had they never emigrated, our generation too would have grown up to adopt the same perspectives. It is precisely because they gave us the opportunity to grow up in the (relatively) liberal and free Western world that we can adopt a different (and hopefully better) value system. I've yet to ever change anyone's mind via an online forum but it doesn't stop me from trying: let your parents know you recognize the sacrifices and suffering they endured to make it to the states, it would mean the world to them. It's far from easy to immigrate to the states today, and it was even harder a generation ago. They truly had to be exceptional in so many respects to make the extreme cutoff it took to beat out an entire country of peers competing for the opportunity to come to the states, and give their kids, you, a far better life.

s5300 4y ago
> If all your parents did was give you the opportunity to grow up stateside as opposed to some communist hellhole or third-world slum, that itself is worth a lifetime of gratitude that you can never hope to pay back. As hard as first generation parents may be on their kids, they have almost certainly endured through far worse in their childhood. You’re supposed to have a lifetime of gratitude towards somebody who willfully brought you into your self described hell? …weird, yo.
- Thorrez 4y ago
  I interpret 1lint's comment as saying the parents brought the kids out of the hellhole, so the kids should be thankful.
  - s5300 4y ago
    Yes, that is what he’s saying. However, the kids did not ask to be brought into this life - which OP seems to describe as a hellhole overall. Why should the kids be grateful for anything after being forced into this world?
    - Thorrez 4y ago
      1lint is saying it would have been a lot worse without the move, so the kids should be thankful for the move. Are you saying the kids wish their parents never brought them into the world? That seems more extreme than what I read in the comments.
    - badpun 4y ago
      If it's so bad, why not kill yourself? If you, however, choose to live on, then maybe it's not so bad after all, and some gratitude is warranted?
      - atq2119 4y ago
        "Some gratitude" sounds very different from "a lifetime of gratitude".
fritztastic 4y ago
> If all your parents did was give you the opportunity to grow up stateside as opposed to some communist hellhole or third-world slum, that itself is worth a lifetime of gratitude that you can never hope to pay back. It's ok to not be ok with abuse and neglect, despite the sacrifices those who hurt you made for you. My parents left primarily due to not being able to provide for us during a period of unpredictable instability which was largely due to privatization of many industries and international corporate meddling (after having voted in a Socialist government that was upended by Capitalist powers). They left because they felt deeply betrayed and were ill equipped for the transition. I remember the struggle for food- that struggle was still present in America. Personally, I know they themselves struggle with having left their family (and children, for some years) behind- my father has regrets he voiced after his mother passed away, that despite all his accomplishments and hard work he is still not valued as he deserves but on top of that (most importantly to him) he is a continent away from most of the people he grew up with and loves. They do put the weight of that decision on us to accomplish and validate their sacrifices (or "make their sacrifice worth it"). One can be grateful and also still struggle with generational trauma. You can love your parents unconditionally and still have a hard time with them refusing to get help, refusing to listen, refusing to take you seriously because "children listen to their parents and listening is a one-way street". I can be as clear and patient as humanly possible, present all the research patiently, beg them to take me seriously, but what I say still won't hold the same weight as anything their friends say, despite my ability to explain misinformation or bias. I can only imagine how they will be in their later years. I hope they will mellow out over time but, as the last few years have shown me, I find this increasingly unlikely. I'll still take care of them and love them, fully knowing they are unable/unwilling to accept me as a person (LGBTQ+ wise), but no I don't think they are judgemental "no more than their former compatriots" because people exist everywhere (and I know for a fact in our country of origin) who don't hold the bitterness and hostile defensiveness they do. I think perhaps being immigrants made them even harder as people, and I'm old enough to remember what life was like before they had to live with the resentment of leaving everything they knew to give us opportunities. Also I completely disagree with the sentiment of holding "a lifetime of gratitude" that can never be paid back over someone's life. Surely there are ways of reciprocating that amount of love and care, ways that don't involve conforming to your parents ideas of who they want you to be, especially when their ideas make no room for who you actually are. Not to say all immigrant parents are the same, but I do think it's incredibly common to have immigrant parents who genuinely have no interest in knowing/appreciating you as a person, who live with so many layers of trauma that they refuse to even acknowledge their toxic traits, that they don't endeavor to heal from because they wear their suffering like a badge of honor. Their sense of self-worth is embedded in their fight to make it and prove themselves, and they create hurdles so you have to fight to make yourself worth their time and fight to prove yourself worthy of their sacrifice. I don't believe this is necessary and I wish they would care enough to get out of that mindspace. I do love and appreciate them enough to understand them compassionately and empathetically despite them not extending the same- my parents fully know this and they expect it and take it for granted because "it's the least I can do", it does not mean the world for them because their pain has nothing to do with me and everything to do with their continuous grief for everything they lost along the way. I just wish they would take the time to consider that despite their adamant stance of "I put a roof over your head, food in your mouth, clothes on your back, and that's all you should want"- we, their children, are also people with valid things to say and our struggles also matter.

by _dmxy 4y ago

s5300 4y ago

> If all your parents did was give you the opportunity to grow up stateside as opposed to some communist hellhole or third-world slum, that itself is worth a lifetime of gratitude that you can never hope to pay back. As hard as first generation parents may be on their kids, they have almost certainly endured through far worse in their childhood. You’re supposed to have a lifetime of gratitude towards somebody who willfully brought you into your self described hell? …weird, yo.

Thorrez 4y ago
I interpret 1lint's comment as saying the parents brought the kids out of the hellhole, so the kids should be thankful.
- s5300 4y ago
  Yes, that is what he’s saying. However, the kids did not ask to be brought into this life - which OP seems to describe as a hellhole overall. Why should the kids be grateful for anything after being forced into this world?
  - Thorrez 4y ago
    1lint is saying it would have been a lot worse without the move, so the kids should be thankful for the move. Are you saying the kids wish their parents never brought them into the world? That seems more extreme than what I read in the comments.
  - badpun 4y ago
    If it's so bad, why not kill yourself? If you, however, choose to live on, then maybe it's not so bad after all, and some gratitude is warranted?
    - atq2119 4y ago
      "Some gratitude" sounds very different from "a lifetime of gratitude".

fritztastic 4y ago

> If all your parents did was give you the opportunity to grow up stateside as opposed to some communist hellhole or third-world slum, that itself is worth a lifetime of gratitude that you can never hope to pay back. It's ok to not be ok with abuse and neglect, despite the sacrifices those who hurt you made for you. My parents left primarily due to not being able to provide for us during a period of unpredictable instability which was largely due to privatization of many industries and international corporate meddling (after having voted in a Socialist government that was upended by Capitalist powers). They left because they felt deeply betrayed and were ill equipped for the transition. I remember the struggle for food- that struggle was still present in America. Personally, I know they themselves struggle with having left their family (and children, for some years) behind- my father has regrets he voiced after his mother passed away, that despite all his accomplishments and hard work he is still not valued as he deserves but on top of that (most importantly to him) he is a continent away from most of the people he grew up with and loves. They do put the weight of that decision on us to accomplish and validate their sacrifices (or "make their sacrifice worth it"). One can be grateful and also still struggle with generational trauma. You can love your parents unconditionally and still have a hard time with them refusing to get help, refusing to listen, refusing to take you seriously because "children listen to their parents and listening is a one-way street". I can be as clear and patient as humanly possible, present all the research patiently, beg them to take me seriously, but what I say still won't hold the same weight as anything their friends say, despite my ability to explain misinformation or bias. I can only imagine how they will be in their later years. I hope they will mellow out over time but, as the last few years have shown me, I find this increasingly unlikely. I'll still take care of them and love them, fully knowing they are unable/unwilling to accept me as a person (LGBTQ+ wise), but no I don't think they are judgemental "no more than their former compatriots" because people exist everywhere (and I know for a fact in our country of origin) who don't hold the bitterness and hostile defensiveness they do. I think perhaps being immigrants made them even harder as people, and I'm old enough to remember what life was like before they had to live with the resentment of leaving everything they knew to give us opportunities. Also I completely disagree with the sentiment of holding "a lifetime of gratitude" that can never be paid back over someone's life. Surely there are ways of reciprocating that amount of love and care, ways that don't involve conforming to your parents ideas of who they want you to be, especially when their ideas make no room for who you actually are. Not to say all immigrant parents are the same, but I do think it's incredibly common to have immigrant parents who genuinely have no interest in knowing/appreciating you as a person, who live with so many layers of trauma that they refuse to even acknowledge their toxic traits, that they don't endeavor to heal from because they wear their suffering like a badge of honor. Their sense of self-worth is embedded in their fight to make it and prove themselves, and they create hurdles so you have to fight to make yourself worth their time and fight to prove yourself worthy of their sacrifice. I don't believe this is necessary and I wish they would care enough to get out of that mindspace. I do love and appreciate them enough to understand them compassionately and empathetically despite them not extending the same- my parents fully know this and they expect it and take it for granted because "it's the least I can do", it does not mean the world for them because their pain has nothing to do with me and everything to do with their continuous grief for everything they lost along the way. I just wish they would take the time to consider that despite their adamant stance of "I put a roof over your head, food in your mouth, clothes on your back, and that's all you should want"- we, their children, are also people with valid things to say and our struggles also matter.