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I got the chance to ride in a pretty large and fast formation during an otherwise casual charity ride a few years back. Really enjoyable and a bit nerve wrackin

I got the chance to ride in a pretty large and fast formation during an otherwise casual charity ride a few years back. Really enjoyable and a bit nerve wracking at the same time being in close quarters like that. When in the middle of the pack, it was pretty amazing how little energy it took to maintain speed--just a few half-hearted pedal strokes every few seconds. Any more and you'd start creeping up on the rear tire of the person in front of you. edit: Forgot the best part. The formation ended when someone near the front swerved to avoid a hole in the trail. Person behind them--taken by surprise--abruptly braked. Chaos ensued. Chaos propagated upstream and eventually got to me. I ran over a downed bike and flew over my own bike landing on my handle bars--broke a rib (though didn't know it until a few days later). Why would the organizers of a casual charity ride allow formation riding, you ask? They don't.

brippalcharrid 4y ago
You mentioned it was on a trail; normally you'd only have a peloton on a paved road where the event organizers had checked the surfaces beforehand. You get some fairly close formation riding in (road) club runs as well, but riders are typically less closely bunched together, subject to conditions, experience and the level of competitiveness that morning.
- hinkley 4y ago
  Clubs tend to pick known routes as well.
- bandyaboot 4y ago
  Yeah, I chose to use “formation” rather than “peloton” because the latter would have been a stretch. It was two long, closely packed columns. It definitely was ill-advised and ended exactly how it should have.
cerol 4y ago
Although I'm a marathon runner, I've dabbled in speed cycling many times, and rode in a "pro" peloton (amateur pro) for a while. There are a couple of rules you end up learning. 1. When you're leading a peloton, never go aero (when you lower your upper body so you're "cutting the wind"). Always keep your eyes on the road ahead, looking for potholes. 2. Whenever you spot a pothole, call it. Shout "pothole", loud and clear. As you go around it, point to it for the person behind you. 3. When someone in front of you shouts "pothole" and points to it, shout "pothole" and point to it, recursively. 4. Never break abruptly in the middle of a peloton. 5. For maximum efficiency and safety, your front wheel should a wheel's distance from the rear wheel of the bike in front of you. 6. If you need to do anything that is somewhat abrupt, like leaving the peloton, always warn, loud and clear.
- thirdsun 4y ago
  For point 5 you should add and emphasize that one should never overlap wheels with the rider in front of them.
- inopinatus 4y ago
  Couple of comments from someone who trained with professional cyclists for some years, and even won a few (amateur) bike races: > When you're leading a peloton, never go aero (when you lower your upper body so you're "cutting the wind"). Always keep your eyes on the road ahead, looking for potholes. You can do both, with flexibility and core strength. If I'm on the front in a road race, I'll be in the drops. My breakaway performance improved dramatically when I started including yoga & pilates in training regime. However, for time-trial or triathlon bikes, i.e. those with specialist aero bars that help us become more narrow to the wind, you'll hear general advice to never get down on the aero bars in a group. That certainly is a good safety guideline to follow, with the exception of training for/racing a team time trial. Not so much due to visibility as it is the altered handling characteristics and lack of brake levers. > For maximum efficiency and safety, your front wheel should a wheel's distance from the rear wheel of the bike in front of you. That's a lot. In a competitive event we're often down to a few centimeters gap between wheels. In such circumstances the proper safety protocol is to be slightly laterally displaced from the wheel you're following, enough that any unanticipated change in speed means your front wheel slides past their rear wheel rather than making tyre contact. The choice of left or right generally depends on wind direction, and on very windy days this coordinates with echelon formation.
  - cycomanic 4y ago
    > Couple of comments from someone who trained with professional cyclists for some years, and even won a few (amateur) bike races: Same here, although I only won a couple of very minor races > > When you're leading a peloton, never go aero (when you lower your upper body so you're "cutting the wind"). Always keep your eyes on the road ahead, looking for potholes. > You can do both, with flexibility and core strength. If I'm on the front in a road race, I'll be in the drops. My breakaway performance improved dramatically when I started including yoga & pilates in training regime. Yes, it obviously depends on the speed the group is going, but the front of the peloton will always go into a more aero position when riding fast. > However, for time-trial or triathlon bikes, i.e. those with specialist aero bars that help us become more narrow to the wind, you'll hear general advice to never get down on the aero bars in a group. That certainly is a good safety guideline to follow, with the exception of training for/racing a team time trial. Not so much due to visibility as it is the altered handling characteristics and lack of brake levers. I know several group rides who would not let people with tribars (typically only triathlete would try) into the group. You'd likely get pretty aggressively get told to f off (hanging of the back might be tolerated). As you point out there are pretty good reasons for it. > > For maximum efficiency and safety, your front wheel should a wheel's distance from the rear wheel of the bike in front of you. > That's a lot. In a competitive event we're often down to a few centimeters gap between wheels. In such circumstances the proper safety protocol is to be slightly laterally displaced from the wheel you're following, enough that any unanticipated change in speed means your front wheel slides past their rear wheel rather than making tyre contact. The choice of left or right generally depends on wind direction, and on very windy days this coordinates with echelon formation. Again full agreement. Living a large gap in a peloton or pace line is again a pretty good way of getting a "talking to" (more or less aggressive depending on the group and the speed). One should also point out that if it came to a touch of wheels it is largely considered the fault of the person in front. Finally and that is something many beginners get wrong. If you're riding two abreast (large group training rides will often ride like that), you should have your handlebars next to each other. Imyou can then ride very close (handlebars can touch) without danger, because if one needs to come very close you just lean into each other. The dangerous situation is when handlebars are staggered because you can slot into the bar of the other person. They then try to move away from you (shouldn't but often happens) and you both fall.
codezero 4y ago
I just had a wholesome and hearty laugh at the last two sentences. Thank you for that. And sorry for your broken rib. I broke mine the same way but only after being love-tapped by an SUV. I didn’t realize it until the next day.
- JauntyHatAngle 4y ago
  Semi tangential, but a friend of mine hit a parked car on a bicycle, thought nothing of it went home, ate a pot of paella and then went to sleep. Woke up in excruciating pain, went to hospital and nearly died. Turned out he'd perforated his colon extremely badly, and you only find out those sorts of injuries if your digestive system starts operating, pumping your last meal into your body. They had to remove all the muck out of his body, and then he spent a few months on fluids and losing a lot of weight. I guess the lesson is, cycling injuries are often the type of body injuries that take some time to identify. Keep an eye out.
  - sharkweek 4y ago
    Stepdad is a retired firefighter, and has seen some pretty scarring stuff. One of the stories he shared was that he got to a car crash, woman had been t-boned at about 30MPH but was fully alert, able to move extremities, and according to stepdad, seemed like a bumps and bruises case. They still load her up to take her to the hospital and a few minutes into the ambulance ride her vitals spike and she’s dead within a few minutes before they make it to the ER. Turns out a broken rib had split open one of her organs but nobody had the slightest clue until it was too late (although it didn’t seem like there was much they could have done anyways).
    - lostlogin 4y ago
      It doesn’t always take much. I know someone elderly who survived tearing off their hepatic artery after falling. It turns out you don’t need it, so if you survive the blood loss you’ll be fine. The big pot belly from the blood takes some time to resolve.
steve_adams_86 4y ago
What is it about ribs? My wife broke a couple a few weeks ago and she didn’t realize it until lumps started forming on the bones a week later. She continued mountain biking for a day and a half after the fall, haha. She’s still hurting a lot. I hope I never break a rib. The worst part is apparently I won’t know when I do!
- capableweb 4y ago
  > The worst part is apparently I won’t know when I do! You know you've broken a rib when the pain from the injury gets worse and worse over time, rather than less and less. 3 days of pain in your rib getting progressively worse? Time to head to the hospital
  - steve_adams_86 4y ago
    What can be done at the hospital? Where we are there’s not great access to healthcare and reading online suggests nothing can be done for most rib injuries anyway. She’s reluctant to put the effort into getting care if there won’t be a meaningful outcome.
    - capableweb 4y ago
      A broken rib can damage your lungs or liver. Not sure where in the world you are, but going to the hospital with pain usually can help with at least getting prescription pain-killers, especially useful because having a broken rib tends to be kind of painful, paracetamol/ibuprofen have not helped me in the past with broken ribs. Last time I went they warned me of not being able to breath deeply enough, hence I got stronger pain-killers. Something about possible infections or something like that, was a while ago.
      - steve_adams_86 4y ago
        That makes sense, thanks. My wife did have lung issues for a week or so but they ended up mellowing out and fading away. Weird stuff like coughing up infected phlegm. Definitely shallow breath like you mentioned. We’re in Canada but our healthcare situation in our area is pretty bad. Sometimes weeks to get an appointment, walk in clinics are loaded by the early morning, triage in emergency rooms can totally exclude problems like my wife’s within any reasonable time frame. I think some parts of the country are okay right now (I hope) but we haven’t had a family doctor or reliable access to healthcare for years now.
Sakos 4y ago
So the ideal future is self-driving bikes that are in constant communication with each other and that ride themselves in peloton formation.
- klibertp 4y ago
  I said it a few times before, but the advent of self-driving bikes is the earliest I'm going to ever ride a self-driving car. If the tech is good enough to balance all the forces that are at work when riding a bike in real time, and without adding 100kg to the weight of a bike, it'll be definitely good enough to drive a car.
  - HPsquared 4y ago
    Self-driving is more about looking at the situation in front of you, assessing risks and deciding where to steer/accelerate/brake. Vehicle dynamics aren't really part of the equation (other than as performance limits).
- cassepipe 4y ago
  I'd day the future of locomotion is to connect the bikes together with rigid links and put them in line. But there is still the problem of potholes. But that can be avoided by replacing roads which have to be redone every year by something like tracks, then you don't even have to worry about direction and self-driving becomes easy. Sounds familiar to you ?
  - Sakos 4y ago
    There is a convenience to personal vehicles (whether it's a bike or a car) that can't be completely replaced by public transportation.
    - cassepipe 4y ago
      I even would that there is personal convenience to personal vehicles. And nothing wrong with personal convenience but it's also true that some modern conveniences have a rather high cost in terms of negative externalities that I doubt we can afford any longer on this planet (yes I am looking at you, cars) while others not as much. I am not saying that from a moral standpoint, I really like personal convenience but I don't like it so much when other people lives are made miserable to support for my personal convenience. And I'd like to think that solutions that work for the collective can be optimized to be made more convenient for everyone.

brippalcharrid 4y ago

You mentioned it was on a trail; normally you'd only have a peloton on a paved road where the event organizers had checked the surfaces beforehand. You get some fairly close formation riding in (road) club runs as well, but riders are typically less closely bunched together, subject to conditions, experience and the level of competitiveness that morning.

hinkley 4y ago
Clubs tend to pick known routes as well.
bandyaboot 4y ago
Yeah, I chose to use “formation” rather than “peloton” because the latter would have been a stretch. It was two long, closely packed columns. It definitely was ill-advised and ended exactly how it should have.

cerol 4y ago

Although I'm a marathon runner, I've dabbled in speed cycling many times, and rode in a "pro" peloton (amateur pro) for a while. There are a couple of rules you end up learning. 1. When you're leading a peloton, never go aero (when you lower your upper body so you're "cutting the wind"). Always keep your eyes on the road ahead, looking for potholes. 2. Whenever you spot a pothole, call it. Shout "pothole", loud and clear. As you go around it, point to it for the person behind you. 3. When someone in front of you shouts "pothole" and points to it, shout "pothole" and point to it, recursively. 4. Never break abruptly in the middle of a peloton. 5. For maximum efficiency and safety, your front wheel should a wheel's distance from the rear wheel of the bike in front of you. 6. If you need to do anything that is somewhat abrupt, like leaving the peloton, always warn, loud and clear.

thirdsun 4y ago
For point 5 you should add and emphasize that one should never overlap wheels with the rider in front of them.
inopinatus 4y ago
Couple of comments from someone who trained with professional cyclists for some years, and even won a few (amateur) bike races: > When you're leading a peloton, never go aero (when you lower your upper body so you're "cutting the wind"). Always keep your eyes on the road ahead, looking for potholes. You can do both, with flexibility and core strength. If I'm on the front in a road race, I'll be in the drops. My breakaway performance improved dramatically when I started including yoga & pilates in training regime. However, for time-trial or triathlon bikes, i.e. those with specialist aero bars that help us become more narrow to the wind, you'll hear general advice to never get down on the aero bars in a group. That certainly is a good safety guideline to follow, with the exception of training for/racing a team time trial. Not so much due to visibility as it is the altered handling characteristics and lack of brake levers. > For maximum efficiency and safety, your front wheel should a wheel's distance from the rear wheel of the bike in front of you. That's a lot. In a competitive event we're often down to a few centimeters gap between wheels. In such circumstances the proper safety protocol is to be slightly laterally displaced from the wheel you're following, enough that any unanticipated change in speed means your front wheel slides past their rear wheel rather than making tyre contact. The choice of left or right generally depends on wind direction, and on very windy days this coordinates with echelon formation.
- cycomanic 4y ago
  > Couple of comments from someone who trained with professional cyclists for some years, and even won a few (amateur) bike races: Same here, although I only won a couple of very minor races > > When you're leading a peloton, never go aero (when you lower your upper body so you're "cutting the wind"). Always keep your eyes on the road ahead, looking for potholes. > You can do both, with flexibility and core strength. If I'm on the front in a road race, I'll be in the drops. My breakaway performance improved dramatically when I started including yoga & pilates in training regime. Yes, it obviously depends on the speed the group is going, but the front of the peloton will always go into a more aero position when riding fast. > However, for time-trial or triathlon bikes, i.e. those with specialist aero bars that help us become more narrow to the wind, you'll hear general advice to never get down on the aero bars in a group. That certainly is a good safety guideline to follow, with the exception of training for/racing a team time trial. Not so much due to visibility as it is the altered handling characteristics and lack of brake levers. I know several group rides who would not let people with tribars (typically only triathlete would try) into the group. You'd likely get pretty aggressively get told to f off (hanging of the back might be tolerated). As you point out there are pretty good reasons for it. > > For maximum efficiency and safety, your front wheel should a wheel's distance from the rear wheel of the bike in front of you. > That's a lot. In a competitive event we're often down to a few centimeters gap between wheels. In such circumstances the proper safety protocol is to be slightly laterally displaced from the wheel you're following, enough that any unanticipated change in speed means your front wheel slides past their rear wheel rather than making tyre contact. The choice of left or right generally depends on wind direction, and on very windy days this coordinates with echelon formation. Again full agreement. Living a large gap in a peloton or pace line is again a pretty good way of getting a "talking to" (more or less aggressive depending on the group and the speed). One should also point out that if it came to a touch of wheels it is largely considered the fault of the person in front. Finally and that is something many beginners get wrong. If you're riding two abreast (large group training rides will often ride like that), you should have your handlebars next to each other. Imyou can then ride very close (handlebars can touch) without danger, because if one needs to come very close you just lean into each other. The dangerous situation is when handlebars are staggered because you can slot into the bar of the other person. They then try to move away from you (shouldn't but often happens) and you both fall.

codezero 4y ago

I just had a wholesome and hearty laugh at the last two sentences. Thank you for that. And sorry for your broken rib. I broke mine the same way but only after being love-tapped by an SUV. I didn’t realize it until the next day.

JauntyHatAngle 4y ago
Semi tangential, but a friend of mine hit a parked car on a bicycle, thought nothing of it went home, ate a pot of paella and then went to sleep. Woke up in excruciating pain, went to hospital and nearly died. Turned out he'd perforated his colon extremely badly, and you only find out those sorts of injuries if your digestive system starts operating, pumping your last meal into your body. They had to remove all the muck out of his body, and then he spent a few months on fluids and losing a lot of weight. I guess the lesson is, cycling injuries are often the type of body injuries that take some time to identify. Keep an eye out.
- sharkweek 4y ago
  Stepdad is a retired firefighter, and has seen some pretty scarring stuff. One of the stories he shared was that he got to a car crash, woman had been t-boned at about 30MPH but was fully alert, able to move extremities, and according to stepdad, seemed like a bumps and bruises case. They still load her up to take her to the hospital and a few minutes into the ambulance ride her vitals spike and she’s dead within a few minutes before they make it to the ER. Turns out a broken rib had split open one of her organs but nobody had the slightest clue until it was too late (although it didn’t seem like there was much they could have done anyways).
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    It doesn’t always take much. I know someone elderly who survived tearing off their hepatic artery after falling. It turns out you don’t need it, so if you survive the blood loss you’ll be fine. The big pot belly from the blood takes some time to resolve.

steve_adams_86 4y ago

What is it about ribs? My wife broke a couple a few weeks ago and she didn’t realize it until lumps started forming on the bones a week later. She continued mountain biking for a day and a half after the fall, haha. She’s still hurting a lot. I hope I never break a rib. The worst part is apparently I won’t know when I do!

capableweb 4y ago
> The worst part is apparently I won’t know when I do! You know you've broken a rib when the pain from the injury gets worse and worse over time, rather than less and less. 3 days of pain in your rib getting progressively worse? Time to head to the hospital
- steve_adams_86 4y ago
  What can be done at the hospital? Where we are there’s not great access to healthcare and reading online suggests nothing can be done for most rib injuries anyway. She’s reluctant to put the effort into getting care if there won’t be a meaningful outcome.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    A broken rib can damage your lungs or liver. Not sure where in the world you are, but going to the hospital with pain usually can help with at least getting prescription pain-killers, especially useful because having a broken rib tends to be kind of painful, paracetamol/ibuprofen have not helped me in the past with broken ribs. Last time I went they warned me of not being able to breath deeply enough, hence I got stronger pain-killers. Something about possible infections or something like that, was a while ago.
    - steve_adams_86 4y ago
      That makes sense, thanks. My wife did have lung issues for a week or so but they ended up mellowing out and fading away. Weird stuff like coughing up infected phlegm. Definitely shallow breath like you mentioned. We’re in Canada but our healthcare situation in our area is pretty bad. Sometimes weeks to get an appointment, walk in clinics are loaded by the early morning, triage in emergency rooms can totally exclude problems like my wife’s within any reasonable time frame. I think some parts of the country are okay right now (I hope) but we haven’t had a family doctor or reliable access to healthcare for years now.

Sakos 4y ago

So the ideal future is self-driving bikes that are in constant communication with each other and that ride themselves in peloton formation.

klibertp 4y ago
I said it a few times before, but the advent of self-driving bikes is the earliest I'm going to ever ride a self-driving car. If the tech is good enough to balance all the forces that are at work when riding a bike in real time, and without adding 100kg to the weight of a bike, it'll be definitely good enough to drive a car.
- HPsquared 4y ago
  Self-driving is more about looking at the situation in front of you, assessing risks and deciding where to steer/accelerate/brake. Vehicle dynamics aren't really part of the equation (other than as performance limits).
cassepipe 4y ago
I'd day the future of locomotion is to connect the bikes together with rigid links and put them in line. But there is still the problem of potholes. But that can be avoided by replacing roads which have to be redone every year by something like tracks, then you don't even have to worry about direction and self-driving becomes easy. Sounds familiar to you ?
- Sakos 4y ago
  There is a convenience to personal vehicles (whether it's a bike or a car) that can't be completely replaced by public transportation.
  - cassepipe 4y ago
    I even would that there is personal convenience to personal vehicles. And nothing wrong with personal convenience but it's also true that some modern conveniences have a rather high cost in terms of negative externalities that I doubt we can afford any longer on this planet (yes I am looking at you, cars) while others not as much. I am not saying that from a moral standpoint, I really like personal convenience but I don't like it so much when other people lives are made miserable to support for my personal convenience. And I'd like to think that solutions that work for the collective can be optimized to be made more convenient for everyone.