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Most companies that relied on "cheap gas supplies" for heat generation are affected. Every manufacturing process that needs a high temperature oven for melting

Most companies that relied on "cheap gas supplies" for heat generation are affected. Every manufacturing process that needs a high temperature oven for melting metal, for example, is highly affected by the gas supply. Due to gazprom basically being used as an economic weapon of Russia right now, that's not gonna change soon. The CDU sold us out to Russia, and it's not gonna change immediately. What we can do now is plan accordingly, and try to move to solar power as soon as possible. And by that I mean, yesterday. Bills exploded for private households, social media shows regularly pictures of ridiculous bills like 1600EUR+ for a month of heat for a simple family household. That's where it's at right now. Lots of people laugh or mock at the plus of 18EUR/month for Kindergeld that you can now get, because it's basically worthless in comparison. Prepare yourselves, this is going to be a war of cyber and energy. In my personal opinion it's inevitable, because Putin and his propaganda of the supposed "growing Nazism in Central Europe" has been going on for decades after the revolution attempt of the opposition. It's only a matter of time until Putin wants a strategically easier-to-defend Moscow, because the mountains in Poland and Finland sure look juicy to him. Always keep in mind: Whoever controls the oil and gas supply, controls the planet economically. The reason for the invasion of the North-East Ukraine was the oil fields, and the independence of oil supply for Europe was too high a risk for Putin's strategical control over the European Union.

thro388 4y ago
Maybe it is just Germans own stupidity. 3 nuclear power plants are going to be shutdown this January!
- martin_a 4y ago
  That you created a throwaway account to repeat this nonsense speaks for itself.
  - iso1631 4y ago
    It's a couple of days late, but it wasn't until Sep 5th that they announced 2 of the 3 planned for closure on Dec 31st would be run for an extra 3 months. Still closing Emsland though, at least according to wikipedia https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2022-09/zwei-atomkraftwerke-sollen-bis-april-2023-als-notreserve-bereitstehen https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2022-09/zwei-atomkraftwerke-s...
    - martin_a 4y ago
      Just so much is fucked up about that whole situation. 1. Did nobody think about that nuclear plants can't be switched on and off like nothing? 2. They want them in standby because they fear that north-south energy transport could be overloaded. Well, let's have some blackouts in Bavaria then, maybe they'll start cooperating with the rest of the country then. 3. Nuclear plants can't really substitute what might be missing in gas, if I remember correctly. 4. With all the half-assed things that are happening in Germany, let's just do ONE thing consequently and stop using nuclear power. It will be fine if it isn't already.
  - _dain_ 4y ago
    It's a fact.
    - martin_a 4y ago
      What exactly? That three nuclear power plants are being shut down by the end of the year? Yes, that's a fact.
mciancia 4y ago
How do you want to move Europe to solar power? Do we have any reasonable capability of storing excess power from summer till winter? Why not nuclear?
- iso1631 4y ago
  Can still generate a hell of a lot of electricity from Solar in winter, and offshore wind, and of course gas isn't going away soon.
- martin_a 4y ago
  > Why not nuclear? - Current reactors are EOL - No new reactors have been built since ages, although political constellations might even have been in favor to do so - No solution for permanent storage of nuclear waste Nuclear power is no solution at all.
  - zakk 4y ago
    Please, please, please stop with the waste management taking point! There are super-safe and rather cheap ways of treating and storing nuclear waste! It’s essentially a scaremongering talking point.
    - martin_a 4y ago
      Which ways? Dumping them in some salt mines as we have done for the last 50 years? There is not a single "super-safe" and "cheap" way for Germany.
      - zakk 4y ago
        Nuclear wastes are incredibly small, the whole energy you would need in your life would fill a soda can of wastes, if only nuclear was used. Geological repositories are an excellent solution. Those place are geologically stable, and can contain thousand of years of wastes. It’s not very expensive to collect wastes there, as well!
Panzer04 4y ago
Yes, because telling your major customer that you’ll screw them completely at will is so good for business. Whatever Putin’s reason for the war, at this point any attempt to use it for control has spectacularly backfired.
epolanski 4y ago
> to gazprom basically being used as an economic weapon of Russia So after we funded Ukraine's war, sanctioned Russia into oblivion, froze hundreds of billions $ of their money, forced our companies to leave their market, and even seized their belongings it's them weaponizing assets? I'm all for the sanctions and support, but making Russia the bad guy for our economic crisis because they are retaliating sanctions is really biased. It's not a weapon, it's a trade and they leave money on the table everyday. Lots of money.
- themitigating 4y ago
  "Both sides both sides" Russia is the bad guy for both the war and their reaction to the sanctions. Your comment is like saying "don't get mad at a criminal for shooting at the police chasing him".
  - paganel 4y ago
    > at the police chasing him" Just so that we're clear, calling the West as "the police" as you do with your analogy just reinforces Russia's claim that we now live in a unipolar world, of which the US is the policeman (hence Russia's desire to split it all into a multi-polar world, no police chasing bad guys without international due-process there).
    - scrollaway 4y ago
      - gdy 4y ago
        scrollaway 4y ago
gdy 4y ago
"gazprom basically being used as an economic weapon of Russia right now" Why would Russia need European money if the EU either steals them (they call it 'freezing') or doesn't exchange it for what Russia needs (advanced tech)? And if Russia don't need European money, why do you expect Gazprom to keep selling gas to the Europe?

thro388 4y ago

Maybe it is just Germans own stupidity. 3 nuclear power plants are going to be shutdown this January!

martin_a 4y ago
That you created a throwaway account to repeat this nonsense speaks for itself.
- iso1631 4y ago
  It's a couple of days late, but it wasn't until Sep 5th that they announced 2 of the 3 planned for closure on Dec 31st would be run for an extra 3 months. Still closing Emsland though, at least according to wikipedia https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2022-09/zwei-atomkraftwerke-sollen-bis-april-2023-als-notreserve-bereitstehen https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2022-09/zwei-atomkraftwerke-s...
  - martin_a 4y ago
    Just so much is fucked up about that whole situation. 1. Did nobody think about that nuclear plants can't be switched on and off like nothing? 2. They want them in standby because they fear that north-south energy transport could be overloaded. Well, let's have some blackouts in Bavaria then, maybe they'll start cooperating with the rest of the country then. 3. Nuclear plants can't really substitute what might be missing in gas, if I remember correctly. 4. With all the half-assed things that are happening in Germany, let's just do ONE thing consequently and stop using nuclear power. It will be fine if it isn't already.
- _dain_ 4y ago
  It's a fact.
  - martin_a 4y ago
    What exactly? That three nuclear power plants are being shut down by the end of the year? Yes, that's a fact.

mciancia 4y ago

How do you want to move Europe to solar power? Do we have any reasonable capability of storing excess power from summer till winter? Why not nuclear?

iso1631 4y ago
Can still generate a hell of a lot of electricity from Solar in winter, and offshore wind, and of course gas isn't going away soon.
martin_a 4y ago
> Why not nuclear? - Current reactors are EOL - No new reactors have been built since ages, although political constellations might even have been in favor to do so - No solution for permanent storage of nuclear waste Nuclear power is no solution at all.
- zakk 4y ago
  Please, please, please stop with the waste management taking point! There are super-safe and rather cheap ways of treating and storing nuclear waste! It’s essentially a scaremongering talking point.
  - martin_a 4y ago
    Which ways? Dumping them in some salt mines as we have done for the last 50 years? There is not a single "super-safe" and "cheap" way for Germany.
    - zakk 4y ago
      Nuclear wastes are incredibly small, the whole energy you would need in your life would fill a soda can of wastes, if only nuclear was used. Geological repositories are an excellent solution. Those place are geologically stable, and can contain thousand of years of wastes. It’s not very expensive to collect wastes there, as well!

Panzer04 4y ago

Yes, because telling your major customer that you’ll screw them completely at will is so good for business. Whatever Putin’s reason for the war, at this point any attempt to use it for control has spectacularly backfired.

epolanski 4y ago

> to gazprom basically being used as an economic weapon of Russia So after we funded Ukraine's war, sanctioned Russia into oblivion, froze hundreds of billions $ of their money, forced our companies to leave their market, and even seized their belongings it's them weaponizing assets? I'm all for the sanctions and support, but making Russia the bad guy for our economic crisis because they are retaliating sanctions is really biased. It's not a weapon, it's a trade and they leave money on the table everyday. Lots of money.

themitigating 4y ago
"Both sides both sides" Russia is the bad guy for both the war and their reaction to the sanctions. Your comment is like saying "don't get mad at a criminal for shooting at the police chasing him".
- paganel 4y ago
  > at the police chasing him" Just so that we're clear, calling the West as "the police" as you do with your analogy just reinforces Russia's claim that we now live in a unipolar world, of which the US is the policeman (hence Russia's desire to split it all into a multi-polar world, no police chasing bad guys without international due-process there).
  - scrollaway 4y ago
    - gdy 4y ago
      - scrollaway 4y ago

gdy 4y ago

"gazprom basically being used as an economic weapon of Russia right now" Why would Russia need European money if the EU either steals them (they call it 'freezing') or doesn't exchange it for what Russia needs (advanced tech)? And if Russia don't need European money, why do you expect Gazprom to keep selling gas to the Europe?